Finding a Professional Community as a Dentist with Dr. Grace Yum

Hey, Dental Online Trainers. Thanks for joining us. Today's Sharecast is with Dr. Grace Yum, pediatric dentist and Founder of Mommy Dentists in Business. In our previous conversation, Grace shares her story about what inspired her to start Mommy Dentists in Business, a place for dentists who are also mothers. It's a gathering place for mommy dentists to meet, and to support each other with the challenges of running a household and running a dental practice.

Grace talks about the need for supportive communities of dentists where there's space for collaboration instead of competition. She also shares about juggling all the different aspects of her life as best she can and how she views the importance of getting help when needed to keep everything running smoothly. So listen, kick back and relax and enjoy my conversation with Dr. Grace Yum. Founder of Mommy dentists and business. 

Hello, Dental Online Trainers. Dr. Dennis Hartlieb, back with you again for part two of our conversation with Dr. Grace Yum. Yum, right? Yum?

Grace 1:00  

Yum, Yum, Yum! I'm either supposed to be a dentist or chef.

Dennis 1:06  

There you go. Maybe a little bit of both. If you did not listen to part one, I encourage you to go listen to part one of our interview because you get to listen to Grace's background, how she got influenced to go into dentistry. It's so interesting. In all these interviews I've done, it's so interesting to hear the person that influenced the dentist that got them into dentistry, and Grace is no exception.

You'll hear her background, and you'll learn how she got into pediatric dentistry and some of the challenges being a pediatric dentist. So it's a great conversation that we had. The second part of our conversation is going to be about an organization that Grace started back in 2017. Mommy Dentists in Business, or you can find it at MommyDib.com, correct? 

Grace 1:50  

Yes, Dennis, correct! 

Dennis 1:52  

And I think it's fascinating. And so, Grace, if you can sort of jump in. Tell me your inspiration of like, just bring me back. So, what was going on?

Grace 2:06  

Absolutely! Great question, Dennis. Four years ago, I was practicing dentistry full time. Monday through Thursday, two Saturdays a month, teaching residents. I had one resident from each program, actually, UIC and Lurie's, rotating through on Saturdays. And I was about to, or thinking about, opening a third location in the western suburbs. My city practice was great because it was like the flagship office with lots of new families, young couples, one child getting two... Then they move to the suburbs because they needed a big house. Most went to the North Shore -- I would say about 70% and 30% would then go to Hinsdale. 

Dennis 2:54  

Which is out west, for our listeners. 

Grace 2:56  

Yes. So I was tracking where my patients were going. Some would come back to the city every six months. But then some wanted and asked: Can you open another practice in Northshore? So that's what stimulated my practice being open in Glenview. So when I did that, before I did that, there was a practice that I could rent.

So, I rented a small two office practice because one of my attendings at Lurie's was Dr. Frank Bukhari. Dr. Bukhari is a plastic surgeon, but I met him on the cleft palate team. So Dr. Bukari's wife, Dr. Janice Bukhari, on Waukegan Road, has this really small, cute little office, where she works out of three times a week when she wants, and otherwise it's sitting empty. So she let me rent her practice, so that I could see if patients were coming. 

Dennis 4:01  

Yeah, that's a great way to do it. 

Grace 4:03  

Yeah. So I did that.

Dennis 4:04  

Did you have associates at the time, Grace, or were you on your own?

Grace 4:06  

I did. I had an associate. And I don't remember how many, but I was running my first practice for four years before I decided to venture off to the second practice. And I was already pregnant with my second child opening up the Glenview practice. 

Dennis 4:15

How old was your first child? 

Grace 4:16

Two. 20 months old. And so the funny thing is in pedo, there's really not many practices to buy, so I had to build from scratch both practices, and that was great. I enjoyed it. And when the second practice is about four years old, I was thinking about opening up the one in Hinsdale. However, at that time, being a mom, being a practice owner, I couldn't make all the dental meetings. iIt was very hard to go to a meeting at six o'clock at night, I'd be driving to Old Orchard to go to Maggio's for a meeting, but then I get a call from my nanny saying, "Your daughter has a fever of 102, and your husband's out of town for work! You need to come home! She's crying."

So then I'm turning the wheel, and I've got to go home, and I can't make all these meetings. So then I found an online community on Facebook. There were many dental Facebook groups that I learned so much. I never went to Dental Town. I was in many Facebook dental groups. But then I felt it very awkward to ask questions that pertained to mothers and dentistry. Because I didn't think our male colleagues could really understand what we were going through.

One time I threw out a question in the forum, and I said something about how do you handle your schedule, if you've to pick up your kids on... You're missing all their sports activities and games and everything like that. And the women were chiming in trying to help answer the question, but the men would chime in and say, "Oh, gosh, I'm so glad I don't have to deal with that. My wife deals with that." 

Dennis 6:12  

Oh, interesting. 

Grace 6:13  

And so I was like, "Thank you for answering. But you really didn't have to answer because it's really not pointed at you. But thank you for answering. I don't have a wife!"

Dennis 6:22  

Right! Right! So that's the reality.

Grace 6:24  

Right. So it was interesting, because I felt that, again, some of the questions other women asked, our male colleagues would start to be condescending, and answer in kind of mean way or an aggressive way. And I noticed that more and more women were backing out of asking questions.

Dennis 6:43  

Because they didn't want to get that feedback from these male dentists that were maybe not sensitive to the reality of being a mom and a dentist!

Grace 6:52  

Right! Or aggressive! You know, nobody wants to be treated aggressively. And on a keyboard when you're typing, you don't hear the tone of voice, right? You don't know if they're joking. You don't know if it's like an a chuckled way...

Dennis 7:05  

Right. Is there sarcasm? Or is it just mean spirited? Or what is it?

Grace 7:08  

Right! You don't know. You can't tell. And oftentimes you don't know who they are. They're hidden. But, in Glenview, we all know each other, right? We all know So and So, and So and So, and So and So. And so, when we interact, we know each other. But if you're talking to a doctor from Washington, DC that you don't you don't even know anything about, it's hard to understand. So I decided why not come up with my own Facebook group and make it for mothers because there's no place for mothers, and mothers have a different challenge. We honestly do.

So, I ventured off, created this group called Mommy Dentists in Business because that's what I identified with, all the hats that I wear. Mommy, I'm a dentist, I'm in business. So those are the three identifiers. I only started with 50 people of my own friends, dental school friends, colleagues that I knew, and referrals. One thing led to another, and people were saying, This is great. We're really helping each other!" 

Dennis 7:51

Can I ask you a question, Grace? Before you go on... And I'm totally interrupt! When you first started... So I think this is exceptional, and I'm surrounded by really incredible women dentists, and many are moms. And, you know, I don't want to say that I'm fortunate... It's not that I'm fortunate or unfortunate. I'm a male in a very male driven profession. Thought that's changing quickly, right? I mean, classes now are 50/50 or more. I hate to go back to this, but I feel the need to. So you're talking about this sort of online format where you have a real... You have a real issue, you've got a question! You need some advice. You need mentorship, right?
 

Grace 8:49  

Right. 

Dennis 8:50
And you're in this community where there's insensitive, non... insensitive males. I want to go back to dental school because I'm very curious. And I ask a lot of my female colleagues this. Did you feel the same sort of insensitivity when you were in dental school, being a female in this very male centric profession? 

Grace 9:08  

No! Not in school.

Dennis 9:09  

Okay. So it's sort of in this hidden format where people... where you're in this Facebook group and people... or whatever the community was. And that's so unfortunate. It's terrible, as a male, that we're not more heightened in our awareness and sensitive, but I applaud you for for making a format or finding and creating a format for people to be... For women, women moms, to be able to speak freely and openly and honestly. That's got to be very liberating. That's got to be really... It's got to be be incredibly refreshing and liberating for women to be able to have that format.

Grace 9:44  

It is! It is. And to get the feedback, it's been four years... it went by very quickly, but again, I love helping people. And if I get an email or a letter in the mail or someone messaging me about how it's changed their life, how it's made them a better dentist, a better mom, how they feel supported, how they feel they finally have people that understand them, the camaraderie... And some of the things that men don't understand about women...

Dennis 10:17  

Oh, there's a lot. There's a lot. We don't have that much time! Give me just a few.

But one example would be that, if, let's say, Dennis, your wife... Maybe she is an accountant, or maybe she decides to work in the home. The role is different in that -- especially with school, and kids at school. Yeah, there's a lot of stress and pressure to be that mom at school, right? The kids are like, "Well, how can...? Carter's mom comes to school all the time, and does everything with us. You're not on the field trips, you don't come and do the bake sale. Where are you?" And there's this pressure of like, oh my god! Or "you missed out on the play, where were you?" And this is called mom guilt. 

Dennis 11:04  

For sure. 

Grace 11:05  

And dads may or may not feel that much guilt. They might feel some guilt, but it's not on the same level as mom guilt.

Dennis 11:15  

I bet so! I mean, I felt guilty. I hated that I couldn't be a homeroom parent for my daughter, when she was a kid. I hated it. But I would not deny that the amount of guilt that I suffer as a male is far different than than as a mom. I wouldn't argue that at all.

Grace 11:30  

Society puts a lot more pressure on the mom when it comes to children. Yeah. And so if if something happens at school, oftentimes, the moms get blamed for it. You didn't teach your child this, right? Like, even down to manners, like chewing with your mouth closed, or saying thank you. Shaking hands and looking someone in the eye. Even little things like that! "Education starts at home, and you didn't educate your child!" So all of this is culminating, especially for mothers who just gave birth... You know, most societies outside the US, they have a six month leave. 

Dennis 12:11  

Right!

Grace 12:12  

Here. It's like you're back to work in six weeks. Dentists I know? Two weeks.

Dennis 12:17  

Yeah, I was going to say, you know, as a dentist, you're not taking six weeks as a dentist, typically!

Grace 12:22  

No! So if you're a practice owner? No! You know, even after I gave birth, I had my office manager bringing me stuff from the office every day. 

Dennis 12:28

For sure. 

Grace 12:29

So it was or it is a challenge for moms and that work life balance, but also that need of camaraderie, and women comparing themselves or not having that friendship with other moms in their schools. So it's like, "Oh, well, I'm a stay at home mom, but you're a dentist, and so you're intimidating to be a friend with!" Or some of the dentist moms in mommy dentists will say, "I have nothing in common with this lady!" She may not have gone to college, or she may not be on the same education level. So there's this like, I don't connect with some of these women!

Dennis 13:11  

And dentistry is unique in that you have to have your hands in somebody's mouth to be able to be running your business. And so it could be someone who's... They could be another professional. They could be an attorney, but an attorney is sitting at their desk, and they've got their phone right next to them. We don't have our phones next to us.

Grace 13:29  

No! No.

Dennis 13:30  

We have a different... And so it is difficult, even as a male dentist, my friends are like, "You know, I texted you like four hours ago!" It's like, "Yeah! My hands are in someone's mouth, dude! While you're just sitting on your computer. I'm actually... I'm occupied!" And I think that's super important because people don't understand that you're not just at a beck and call when you're serving your patients, right. So it doesn't matter if male or female, if they're in other other worlds, they just don't get it!

Grace 13:59

They don't get it! And you have to be a dentist to get it. And I actually, on my Instagram, I have all these little funny videos of memes of moms. Right? One one I just did was, "Hey, don't feel badly, if the school nurse calls, and the front desk is like, "The school nurse says you've got to pick up the kid!" And you send your dental assistant to pick up the kid. Because what are you going to do? 

Dennis 14:22

What are you going to do?

Grace 14:23  

You can't just leave, and Daddy can't just leave. And so the next best thing is to send your dental assistant to go pick up the kid and bring them home or bring them to the office sick. You know... 

Dennis 14:55

The mom proxy!

Grace 14:56

Don't feel badly! So it's kind of like, we have to joke about it and make light of it at the same time. Because... "Hey, don't feel badly if you know you forgot to take your kid to the birthday party on Saturday!" I have sent my husband... So, at my house, I'm also the social secretary, right? So, I have to keep track of everyone's social activities including date night and your kids' activities and birthdays. I have to work Saturday.

So I told my husband. I texted him: "Take Zoey to the beach party, Montrose beach at 10am." And I, again, I'm in someone's mouth, so I can't check my phone until 3pm. I look at my text. It's 10am My husband goes, "The party was yesterday. And I'm standing at Montreux beach. Here are pictures of me and Zoey at the beach."

Dennis 15:26  

It was a lovely time! Picking up the scraps. I think that you give a lot of credit... It's got to be really great for other moms to be able to have a resource to say, "All right, I don't have to be perfect." I... I read some you wrote or that you said, "It's okay to go to Target and get something, put it on them, and send them off to school. It's okay not to be perfect." There's a lot of pressure on women to be perfect. I think that it's one thing for the media to say it. It's one thing for say a male to say it. It's a different thing for a female colleague living the same life to understand and to hear it from them, and say, "You don't have to be perfect."

Grace 15:52

You don't have to be perfect. And you know... It just reminded me, my friend, who's a pediatrician... Same problems, right? She's a pediatrician. Her son had to... It was like International Day. It was like wear something representative of your ethnic history or whatnot. She was... She's Chinese. So she didn't have time. And she forgot.

Dennis 16:29

Of course! 

Grace 16:30  

It was like Monday, 8 AM, and her son's like, "Mom, what am I wearing to school?" And she was like, oh my god! She found a red shirt. She cut a yellow whatever the Chinese flag is, it's yellow and red. So she said she took construction paper, cut out the things. And she took a safety pin and safety-pinned it to the shirt.

Dennis 16:56  

Success!

Grace 16:56  

You know, and then, of course, kids show up in these elaborate... You know, just elaborate! And you just do the best you can! And as long as your kid shows up, and has something, you know, it builds character. It builds grit! They'll be okay.

Yeah, right. Grit, right? You need grit! Tell me more about Mommy Dentists in Business... You're doing so much! I mean, so... Can I ask actually, before we jump into that, can I... I want to ask you something different. I don't believe in work life balance. I believe in work life integration. Because I love what I do. I love being a dentist, and I love teaching.

And if you were to look around in my basement right now, you'd see all the models I have put out for the next course we're going to do. And I had a hard time with the concept of balance because I I always felt out of balance until I heard someone talk about integration. And accepting that who I am is I'm a dad. I'm divorced, so... When I was a parent, I was... I am a parent. I was a spouse. I have a partner now. And I'm a dentist, and I'm a teacher, and I'm a mentor.

And there's other things, right? So it's all sort of integrating all that stuff. Right? But talk about for... I mean, you've been at it for a while. So talk about balance or integration or how do you describe it? And how do you... What thoughts do you have about that?

Grace 18:28  

Yeah, that's a great question. People ask all the time, how do you balance? I call it the Juggle. And I say to people, "It's never quite balanced." Balanced means you're at equilibrium! 

Dennis 18:39  

Right!

Grace 18:40  

You can't forever be there. You're either up or you're down or you're teetering or you're in the wobble. And for me, my perspective is, it's a juggling act. And if you think about a circus act, and the people that spin the plates on those little poles... As a mom, I am spinning 10 plates in the air and one will eventually drop. And that's okay. It'll shatter.

But the show must go on. You still have to go on. So it is an act, you know? And is you know, you've been around many pediatric dentists... When we show up to work, it's an act every day, no matter how much is going on in your life, no matter what sorrow you're feeling because something happened externally. You show up to work and all of a sudden it's Disney World.

Dennis 19:31  

You're on stage, man! 

Grace 19:32  

It is on!

Dennis 19:34  

Dentistry is you are... You have to... You're on show! It doesn't matter if you're doing kids or adults. You come in you can be having the worst day. "How's your day, Doc?" "My day is great. How's your day?" That's all you can say.

Grace 19:47  

You have to work with blinders on and you have to leave whatever you're feeling at the door and compartmentalize. And so I feel like as moms, we do a good job of juggling and we multitask. And so sometimes we don't do one thing that well. When you have too much going on, and you drop... And the plates are falling. That's when you have to think about: okay, I need prioritize, I need to help myself. So that not everything's falling off. And that means hiring help. That means getting assistance, that means being not in control of everything. You cannot control everything, and you cannot please everyone. And as soon as you understand that and give yourself some grace, you'll feel much better about yourself and how you're doing and that mental clarity because it's physical... Dentistry is very physical, as you know! 

Dennis 20:47  

Incredibly physical! 

Grace 20:48  

It's incredibly physical, and dentistry is emotional. Lots of stress! Dentistry is also... has great satisfaction in how you're helping people. But I think for moms, being emotional creatures, women being emotional creatures -- I'm not saying men are not, but I think that women have to work on balancing your emotions, and your health. Because if you can't be in optimal condition for yourself, you can't help somebody else. And like everyone says... You know, the airplane thing with an oxygen mask -- you have to put it on for yourself, before you can put on somebody else. It's the same concept. So my thing is, women in your 30s, or 40s, or 50s, focus on your health, your physical health! Because if you are not in good physical, optimal health, you cannot practice dentistry. You cannot run around with your kids. And your health in your 40s is the gateway to your health in the 50s and 60s. So if you're not mindful, and you wreck your body now, what are you going to look like in 10 years?

Dennis 21:51  

Yeah, and how are you going to be your career? And for those who are young dentists, I can tell you, I'm nearing 60, I started doing yoga about a decade ago, 

Grace 21:59  

Good for you!

Dennis 21:59  

It's saved me in practice! Because I was just having such a challenge. And so, I think for all dentists, you have to you have to be physically fit to do this. It's a demanding, demanding profession!

It's demanding! And like you said about integration, you need to integrate that! It is crucial. Exercise is crucial to that integration of longevity in your practice, and your family life. And find the time! The complaint that mothers have: "I don't have time!"

Dennis 22:35  

There's no time. 

Grace 22:35  

There's no time! 

Dennis 22:37  

So, how do you respond to that? How do you...?

Grace 22:39  

This is my response. You we have to schedule it like you schedule a patient. You have to schedule it, and you have to commit to it, and find someone that's going to hold you accountable. Whether it's your spouse, or whether it's a girlfriend, whether it's a personal trainer... People say to me, "I can't afford this!" People think, oh my god, a personal trainer, a private yoga instructor, oh, my God, a personal assistant! They think those are luxuries. They think that that's like for somebody who's so wealthy and rich.

And I say, "Look, other people think you are wealthy and rich! You're a doctor!" You know, it's about mindset. And I say, if you do the math, let's say you have someone on your street, maybe a teenager, who's like 14 or 15 years old, come over after school, help with the homework if your kids are little, maybe help with meal prep, or do the laundry... All the things that you don't really have to do. You think you have to do it, but you don't have to do it. And that's what, maybe $200 a week? But guess what? That saves five hours of your week!

You could be going on a walk; you could be going on a jog. You could be doing yoga at your house. That $500 a week extra that you're spending... That's like compared to a one service or two service filling. All you have to do is one filling a week! One one extra filling a week! That's all that it costs for you to have some healthy boundaries in your life.

Dennis 24:07  

That's great. That's great advice. I think that's because I think everyone falls into that, right? "I can't afford it. I don't have the time. There's nowhere to do that." But if you don't, then you're going to drop the plates. Right? And then what's left? Then how do you manage that, right? Now you're not able to serve your patients! You're not able to serve your family; you're not able to serve yourself. Right?

Grace 24:30  

Right! And some moms are widows. Some moms are divorced and single. Some moms have had to do it by themselves. So, they are the breadwinner. And I say, "You know, you are the breadwinner! You're also the primary caregiver. If you don't take the time for yourself, you won't have the resources later." Like what are you going to do?

Dennis 24:55  

Right! And you're not going to enjoy the journey! I mean, at my age, you know, it's looking back and understanding the journey is... is really the whole thing! And, you know, you get... The days are long; the years are short. And it becomes more evident as I get a little bit up there and get a little more gray hair and lose a little more hair.

Grace 25:17  

Absolutely! 

Dennis 25:18  

Tell me, you guys have so much going on! You have a great podcast. You guys have events. Talk about, beyond the forum that you have, which I've heard is just wonderful, tell us about the other stuff that you guys are doing.

So Mommy Dentists in Business really was organically born. I knew nothing about what was it was going to be. My intent was just support. And we were learning so much from each other. The comments were, "We should be earning CE."

And I thought why not? You should be earning CE. So I looked into it and got accredited by the AGD Paste who offer CE. And then one thing led to another led to another... Podcasts, webinars, meetings, newsletters, events, and it goes on and on. And it's become a sorority, and it's even spread to Canada.

And now we have these regional groups, like affinity groups, I call them... And we have volunteer leaders, and they step up, and they get together and they do their gatherings if they can, you know, with COVID, as safe as they can. So, they do that, and it was all born organically! I never knew it would be such a thing. I offer a subscription model. So you pay an annual fee of $635. 

Dennis 26:07

Sounds like a great bargain!

Grace 26:08

With that, you get all the CE for free, and now you get discounts. I have partnered with 60 Different companies. I would say it's about 40 / 60% split. 60% Dental supply companies and dental related / 40% lifestyle meaning William Sonoma, Harry and David, things that mothers purchase. You know, we've done things with Revlon. We've done things... So, things that the other dental organizations don't offer, essentially. So now dental distributors and companies treat me like a DSL almost, even though I'm not, so they give me GPO pricing and lock me in at a price point. Yeah, so we have a formulary.

So, they call me a hybrid in that I'm somewhat an influencer but somewhat a large business that we do our B2B business with. So, it's a hybrid plan. And those that are practice owners get to take advantage of all the discounts and CE. And so, it works out great! And we have a directory, and we have a private portal, and we track everyone's CE.

Just the other day I was on the phone with the California State Dental Board to confirm a doctor's CE. And so I was able to do that. And it's become a business! It's become a business, and it's taking up all my all my time. And I'm very passionate about it. And as you've heard with the story, I've had great mentors, and my whole heart I believe in paying it forward. And in my dental... I want to call it legacy. I have brought up five other women. Two have gone to hygiene school. And then I have three... Well, actually, four more! Four have become dentists. 

Dennis 28:33  

Oh, that's fantastic. 

Grace 28:34  

One is a pediatric dentist now. I just got a text message from one of my assistants who went to Michigan. She's at Michigan right now. Carly Fox, and she got accepted by Dr. Ray Gerado. She will be starting Pedo at Lurie's next fall! 

Dennis 28:48

Fantastic!

Grace 28:49

She just texted me. She said, "I matched! I matched!" And I said, "Oh, amazing!" So I love helping others the way I was helped along the way. So, I think that's really important.

Dennis 29:02  

Can I ask a question. You'd brought up the these little groups, these little pods that are around the country.Those are where women will meet and meet together... And is it just for collaboration? Just to like, "Hey, here's... You're not alone in this very busy dental world that we all live in!" And let's just go have a cocktail. Let's have a glass of wine. Let's go, you know, see a movie. Let's go do whatever. Is that the idea? 

Grace 29:29  

It's just a social gathering!

Dennis 29:30  

Breaking down some barriers...

Grace 29:31  

The regional Facebook groups, we call them, are divided into areas where there's a big population of dentists. So sometimes it's by state or region and sometimes it's literally by city. So there are a huge number of dentists in Texas. Houston has its own Facebook group, Austin, Dallas, San Francisco, San Diego, Chicago. But actually, Chicago, Illinois is grouped with Wisconsin and Ohio. Michigan has its own. So the doctors will get together and have a social gathering, just to say, "Hey, we're in this together, and we are collaborating!" And that's basically all that it is.

And it's just to celebrate each other. Yeah. And they'll post things like, "You know what? I am having to go on maternity leave..." or "I have to have surgery on my ankle," or one thing that happened just recently, "My husband has COVID, and he's in the hospital. Can someone please help me manage the work at my office for the next couple of weeks?" 

Dennis 30:37  

Oh, fantastic. 

Grace 30:38  

Someone who can temp for me? "Hey, I have a hygenist, who's looking for more hours. I only need it for two days. Does anyone need a hygenist?" 

Dennis 30:47  

What a great format! 

Grace 30:48  

We all help each other. And that's what it's about is rather than competing, we're collaborating! Because of the mindset of there's enough for everybody.

Dennis 30:59  

There's enough teeth in the world that we don't have to worry about that! I can't thank you enough. I want... Oh, any event that's coming up that you want to let let our viewers listeners be aware of as things are coming along?

Okay, yeah, sure! We do three events a year. One is our CEO roundtable, which is intimate, less than 50 doctors. That's in Laguna Beach coming up in May. We have a clinical event that's held the Fisco March 31. And that is going to be about 70 doctors. And then our large annual event is in October; it's in Las Vegas. And that's more of a social event. And we do have CE for it. But we have different types of speakers. And so that's always going to be so fun.

You know, but one thing that I wanted to end with you on this podcast is to share with everyone that one of my role models, I would say, or people that I look up to, outside of dentistry, on how to run a business is Isadore Sharp. He's the founder of The Four Seasons hotels and resorts. And I've modeled my business since I was a resident after his. Because of my patients... I always ask them where they go on vacation. And they always say, "It's at the Four Seasons in Hawaii, or Four Seasons..." And I was like, I've never been to the Four Seasons.

So, I would try to go and check it out. Of course, it's expensive. But now I realize why they pay that. Why are they paying all this money to go to the Four Seasons? And then you see! And I get the Four Seasons magazine. And so I just recently got one last month. And I wanted to share an excerpt from it if you will...

Dennis 32:47  

Yeah, absolutely... And for our listeners, and Grace, you may be interested! We just said, Mr. Tod Williams on our Sharecast. And he just did a webinar with us. And Tod was the lead trainer for Four Seasons Hotels for a long, long time. He's actually coming to my study club on Friday to do a training with us this this week. 

Grace 33:00

That's wonderful. I need to look at that!

Dennis 33:02

So yeah, Tod is... Yeah, he talks about the Four Seasons way. And he's one of the best storytellers, if not the very best storyteller I've ever heard in my life. He's just incredible! So, for our listeners, check that out because Tod's really phenomenal. And so yeah, you brought up Four Seasons, so I'm ready! 

Grace 33:30  

Oh, good. I'm so glad! And I read Isadore Sharp's book, his autobiography, as well. And one thing that I loved in this magazine, and I'm going to quote him on this... Because, you know, he's 90.

"You know, when people reach 40 or 50, they always think they're getting older. Well, yes, and it's good to get older, but you don't have to get old. The recipe for not getting old as those wiser than I have said, is always finding much to be grateful for, to be curious about, to take pride in, to enjoy."

And that really resonated with me, because as dentists, we are all high achievers, and we're always thinking about what are we going to do next? What are we going to do next? And sometimes we don't take a moment to think about what we've done. 

Dennis 34:21  

Right. 

Grace 34:22  

And this was beautifully written, and it forces you to look back at everything you've done, and how much you've accomplished, and to applaud yourself! We don't applaud ourselves. We're not our own cheerleaders. Yet we are cheerleaders for everybody else! And so I just wanted to share this because your listeners should take a breath! Take a moment to think about everything you've done, and how hard it was, and the opportunities you had, and what you've accomplished that brought you to where you are today. 

Dennis 34:59  

That's the truth. 

Grace 34:59  

You need to celebrate that.

Dennis 35:02  

That's why I like reading off the background of our guests because it's one thing, you know, yeah, someone will tell me your background. And they're going to leave out some stuff because it's hard to talk about yourself. And I like being able... And I like people being able to hear about themselves. And it's just kind of nice; it makes you feel good. Like yeah, that's... I did do all that. And I think those are really good words that you that you finished with.

I want to read something to you that one of your avid supporters had written This is from Nikki Lambert Hercombe. "I love to help support camaraderie and sisterhood that MDIB gives. I've been in study clubs that were and are supportive, but none of the men get it when you're a woman in the old boys club." (I think this is a huge problem.) "And as such, you're also an outnumbered mom, wife, business owner, etc, I found my people. I also have my new best friends who actually get me. It was just mind blowing to me. And at such a needed time in my life." You know... it goes on and on.

And I just... Grace, I think you've really found a void that needed to be filled. And that's... it's obvious from just sort of looking at testimonials and sort of doing some background, that this is really... And actually, people I know who are members... This is really just a wonderful service that you're doing, a great organization, a great business that you've created. And you should be really just so proud. It really fills fills a need. And I think it's awesome.

Grace 36:32  

Thank you! Thank you so much. Well, thank you for bringing me on and letting me share a little bit about myself and what we're doing. And I am grateful for the opportunity. Thanks for having me.

Dennis 36:44  

You're welcome. And how do they find you if they want to get some more information about Mommy Dentists in Business?

Grace 36:50  

Sure! Our website, Mommydibs.com is a great place to start. You can find us on Facebook and Instagram. Instagram is public, so everyone can see it. The Facebook page is a private page. And so we do vet every single person!

Dennis 37:05  

How do you vet? Have you like... Like, say, you know, "I'm Denise Hartlieb, and mother of two!" How do you make sure Denise Hartlieb is not Dennis Hartlieb?

Grace 37:15  

Right, so we ask for their website. And we... Because all dentists have their bio and headshot on their website. And most dentists have a little blurb about what they do in their free time. And it'll say spending time with two boys and their two dogs in that format. And then we ask, you know, "Are you a mom?" And they'll tell us yes or no.

So, that's how we do it. And we also have a lot of mums... The Canadians say mums. Mums. I just talked to somebody... And so they say, "Oh, well, I want my friend to join and she's a mum and she's a mommy dentist!" So it's referral, you know? And then for those who don't know, we just ask!

Dennis 37:58  

Is there another model like this outside of dentistry? Mom lawyers in business, Mom accountants in business...

Grace 38:04  

So my sister started mommy lawyers in business. 

Dennis 38:07  

Oh, interesting!

Grace 38:08  

So she's doing that! 

Dennis 38:10  

That's great. 

Grace 38:11  

Yeah. So I mean... I'm sure that there's a lot of other moms... I'm sure. You know, facets and their own thing. pharmacy or medical. Right. So I'm sure there are.

Dennis 38:25  

Oh, that's great. Grace, I can't thank you enough. This is so generous of you with your time. I mean, I feel like a little guilty... I just sort of took away half your day! Though, I will tell you, you are very lucky because as we started the program this morning before we got on air, it's like minus five degrees here in the Midwest, and Grace is smart! She's out west in Newport, and God bless you. You're so smart!

Grace 38:47  

Oh, no, I'm just fortunate! You know, I think there's a little bit of luck and a little bit of hard work. And you've got to make your own magic. So everyone who is listening, make your own magic. Life's too short.

Dennis 39:01  

Life is too short. So, Dental Online Trainers, thank you for spending the time with us! And Grace, I can't thank you enough. It's really... This is such a great story! I mean, it's really inspiring. And you're affecting a whole lot of people, so I can't thank you enough!

Grace 39:18  

Thank you! Same to you, Dennis. Thank you for your time.

Dennis 39:21  

You're welcome. Alright, listeners. Thank you for listening, and we'll look forward to seeing you at our next podcast or Sharecast. And until then, yours for better dentistry. I'm Dr. Dennis Hartlieb. 

Hey, Dental Online Trainers. Thanks again for listening. I hope that you enjoyed my conversation with Dr. Grace Yum. If you're a male dentist, like myself, hopefully you'll have better insight to some of the struggles of many of our female counterparts. So look, if you are a male dentist and you're hiring a female associate, and she's a mom, you have to understand there's some other challenges that she's going to have that maybe we didn't have to deal with in our early days as practicing dentists. And if you're a female dentist, if you're a mom dentist, you know, here's a network for you to find support, in your times of challenges, so that you're not alone. 

Now look, if you love our Sharecast as much as I love giving our Sharecast, tell your friends! Send them a link, and don't forget to give us a coveted five star rating where ever you listen to your podcasts! 

Finally, if you're not a member of dental online training yet -- yet! -- check us out at DOThands on.com for information about our live virtual courses. In fact, our CPR for the worn dentition course, our most popular course, is coming up at the end of March. So check that out. We also have our pre-recorded hands on courses where we send you kits, and you follow along on these pre-recorded courses at your pace, at your time, on your schedule, from the comfort of your own practice. We have our mini tips. We have our recorded webinars... 

We have our coffee and donut study club that meets one Friday morning a month to go over problems that you might be having in your practice, whether they be clinic experiences or technique issues or just managing a practice all. All conversations are open as we tried to make each other better and our practices. Well, listen, until next time, thanks for listening. I'm Dr. Dennis Hartlieb. Yours for better dentistry.