The Path to Cosmetic Dentistry and Founding the Fahl Center with Dr. Newton Fahl

Hello, Dental Online Trainers. Dr. Hartlieb here with you again. Welcome back to our Sharecast, and today I continue my conversation with who I refer to as a Michelangelo of composite dentistry. Dr. Newton Fahl. In part one of our Sharecast, Newton shares how his two dental loaves intermingle, composite dentistry and teaching. It's a wonderful conversation into insights of who I believe is one of the best educators in dentistry. And the second part of our conversation, Newton talks about his life as a child of a dentist. In fact, not just a dentist, but a dental educator as well. What a coincidence, huh?

Crazy as it may seem, though, for those who know Newton, he wasn't planning on becoming a dentist. And how many times we hear these stories of these incredible dentists' circuitous routes that ultimately lead them into dentistry. How lucky we are in the world of dentistry and how crazy these stories are. Well, anyhow, kick back and relax and enjoy our continued conversation with Dr. Newton Fahl. 

Alright, Dental Online Trainers. Hi, I'm Dr. Dennis Hartlieb. And welcome back to part two of our conversation with Dr. Newton Fahl. If you did not listen to part one, you must stop, you must push pause, you must go rewind and go back to part one. Because Newton, we just spent, I don't know how much time just talking about educating adults and learning as adults. And it's absolutely fascinating.

And for those in private practice, I will tell you, this is absolutely how you have to be thinking when you're talking to your patients. So even if you're not teaching, this is how you have to be thinking when you're talking to your patients, both adults and for your kids.

Dennis 1:48
Alright, so in part one, I introduced Newton and where we were we tangented off, Newton, was I was talking about your award that you had received from the American Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry for your teaching. And that was back in 2008. And then that led us into your teaching philosophy and sort of some of the background behind it. For those who don't know about Newton, he's from Brazil. He's from the town of Curitiba. And so for those of you who don't know about Brazil, and I don't know much about Brazil, so I googled it. How about that? It is like the fifth largest country by area, sixth by population. So it's a it's a dang big country. If you look on the map, it's really big! I want to know, what was like growing up in your town. You grew up in Curitiba, right?

Newton 2:31  

No, I am actually from Londrina. I was born in Londrina. Upstate.

Dennis 2:38

So, that's what? A couple of hours away from Curitiba?

Newton 2:41

About five hours. 

Dennis 2:43  

Oh, that far. Okay. It didn't look that far when I was looking at the map. All right. So, your dad was a dentist. And I'm super curious. My dad was not a dentist. And many of the people that I've interviewed... I'm trying to think if there's anyone. I don't know if there's anyone that has been on our Sharecast that their dad has been a dentist. So I've been super curious. Over the years, Newton, about the influence of your dad as a dentist. And I want to start out first when you're a young kid. So you're say like in grammar school, you're a young kid, and your dad is a dentist. What do you remember from those years, of your dad being a dentist?

Newton 3:20  

Oh, I loved him. I loved him as a dentist because I would see him come home after practice, and sometimes he would even come home for lunch. And he would sit at the table and chit chat about how things were going. And he was always so enthusiastic about his profession. So that really made a difference. You know, I sort of was just listening and soaking it all in in a way. You know, later on, it must have made a difference in how I made my decision to become a dentist. 

Dennis 4:28

Your dad was in private practice. And he also taught at the University at the time, correct? 

Newton 4:32

That is correct. Yeah. My dad was a Professor of Radiology, dental Radiology at the dental school, Londrina State University, and he was in private practice in private practice, and he was a GP. So yeah, my dad would do everything! You know, endo, prosth. And my dad -- he's 94! He's still alive, thank God, and is 94. So he went to school way, way back when, and it was only three years. And it was the top dental school in Brazil, USB school in San Paulo.

And so he moved to Londrina, from another state to Londrina, and he settled there. He became a very well known dentist because he is such a nice guy. You know, a lot of people would love coming to him as their dentist. And as a kid, growing up, I would come to the office and just be there. And I remember that I would love to play with mercury, you know. 

Dennis 5:12

What a great toy to give out during the holidays!

Newton 5:14

Oh, yeah. And he'd give me the little vials with mercury, and we'd just keep playing with it!

Dennis 5:22  

You're still alive!

Newton 5:24  

I'm still alive, you know, to say the least! But, you know, I would love to see him work. And I'd just sit back and watch him work. 

Dennis 5:33  

What did you like? Well, so take me back. So I'm thinking, you're 10, 11, 12 years old, and you're watching your dad work. What were you seeing that you liked so much?

Newton 5:47  

I've always liked working, or playing, with my hands. I've always been skilled in modeling clay and, you know, things like that, and drawing. And I would really enjoy seeing him do what he did with his hands. And everything seemed to me so diverse and so eclectic and so fun, because lots of toys, you know? Lots of materials and, and things like that! And I didn't like the noise of the drill, you know, the high speed. And that really was...

Dennis 6:07
So you're the one! You're the only person I've ever heard say they don't like the sound of the high speed drill.

Newton 6:10

Man. And yeah, so that was a thing. But it really fascinated me just to see him move around, and treat patients, and converse with patients. My dad was always, has always been a very nice guy. A nice guy, literally. And everybody loved him. Still do, you know, to this day. So, yeah! So that made a tremendous influence, I think indirectly, sort of had that back in the back of my mind, as to what it would mean to become a dentist. However, I was not going to go into dentistry!

Dennis 6:40

So going back, you're seeing your dad. And I mean, part of it is that he you're seeing the things he's able to create. He's using his hands. And you can relate to that because you like doing stuff also. But then you also see where the patients are like, you know, "Dr. Fahl, you're the best. I love you!" And I don't know how to say that in Portuguese, but I'm sure that they were saying that. Right? 

Newton 7:30  

Right. 

Dennis 7:31

Right? I would assume that there's hugs and there's all this admiration, and it's not a super populous town, so I'm sure your dad was was recognized in the community, yeah?

Newton 7:43  

Absolutely. That's very true. That's true. 

Dennis 7:46  

So that had to be like the super cool influence for you growing up. You're like, my dad's like this cool guy. He's doing some super cool stuff. And people love him. So that had to be like this really, sort of like, that had to be a really sort of positive influence.

Newton 7:58  

Yeah. But above all... That had an influence on me. But above all, I think what really made it influence was, he was happy. He was truly happy about his profession. He loved being a dentist. He just loved being a dentist, period.

Dennis 8:32

What did he love so much about it? Do you think it was the combination of being able to use the hands, and then getting sort of this respect and this admiration? Do you think, for your dad, do you think was sort of like that joined together? 

Newton 9:04

Well, he was always fond of being in the healthcare business. I mean, he enjoyed treating disease. Right? So, being a GP, he would do from third molars, surgery, perio, endo, everything. And he would love to see people recover from their illnesses. And he would brag about, and he would say, "Hey, listen, you know, I did this to this patient, and he's so happy now. He's healthy again." So bringing the health component into that realm was what, to me, really stood out in him. And me, watching from afar, I would admire the hand thing, you know, yeah, the manual thing... playing with it and doing it, and all that, which I liked so much. I wasn't really so much fond of that relationship with other people at that point. 

Dennis 9:26

Sure. But you could appreciate it. 

Newton 9:28

Yeah, but which later came to be.

My cat just joined. So this is Chip, for those who are watching. This is Chip the cat, and it's dinner time. He says, "Hey!" We'll just keep them comfortable here. So, you said then, but Dentistry was not what you were going to do. So what were you looking at, and sort of talk us, walk us back through where you were when you were this adolescent or young adult? What were you thinking?

Newton 9:57  

Yeah, I wanted to be an architect. I wanted to be an architect. And so I, as part of my high school senior year, I took a class on as a draftsman, to be a draftsman. And so, I learned about drawing plans, and everything. And it really fascinated me. Because I had the skills for drawing, and I loved it, and I said, "Well, this is what I want to do!" You know, I liked the design part of it. I liked the aesthetic part of it, and I wanted to be an architect.

But one day, when I told my dad that I was going to be an architect, my dad sat down with me, and he said, "Well, son, you know, being an architect may be a good profession for you. But these are the limitations." And he laid them out very clearly on what the market presented. You know, what it would show ahead. And at the time, being an architect wasn't such a big deal, professionally speaking.

Dennis 11:07  

Tough career, right? I mean, tough in the States, to be an architect,. Boy, I mean, you've really got to want to be an architect, because man, it is a tough career path. Same in Brazil?

Newton 11:18  

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Same in Brazil. So he walked me through the hardships that I would be facing, should I decide to be one, but he's always told me... He always told me that I should do whatever I wanted to do. So, if you want to be a car mechanic, be it, but be happy doing what you want to do. 

Dennis 11:41  

That's great advice. 

Newton 11:42  

If you want to be an attorney, be happy doing what you want to do. I'm not here to tell me what you need to do. I chose dentistry because I love it. I'm happy doing it. And you should be the same. But, and here's the quote: "Whatever you do, be the best at what you do."

Dennis 12:01  

No kidding. How old were you when he said that to you? Do you remember? 

Newton 12:04  

Oh, 12. 

Dennis 12:06  

No way!

Newton 12:07  

Yeah, whatever you choose, whatever you decide you should do, be the best at what you do. Because life opens up doors for those who are the best at what they do. And there there will be competition when you grow up, right? And love what you do, and be the best at what you do. And they're intermingled and interchangeable and interlinked. Love what you do, and do what you love, and you should be happy. And that's it. So, then I decided I wouldn't go into architecture, but then I didn't know what I wanted to do. So at the time, I had just come back from my exchange program here in Indiana, Columbus, Indiana. So that was 1980. Yeah, I went... 

Dennis 12:59  

So you were a junior in high school that year? 

Newton 13:01  

I was a senior then. I redid my senior year. 

Dennis 13:05  

Okay. 

Newton 13:07  

So I went through the rotary change program. The Rotary Foundation. So, I came back, and I'd been studying English as a second language all my life. I had been since I was a kid, so I was fluent in English ever since. We spoke English at home. And I got to liking the thing, and the language part. And I got deep into it, and literature, and grammar. I was actually one of the top students in the honor roll of my class when I was in Columbus...

Dennis 13:37
So, let me tell people about Columbus, Indiana. So I'm sure most of our listening audience don't know Columbus, Indiana, but it's east of Bloomington, Indiana, probably about an hour or so. Bloomington, Indiana is where the University of Indiana is.

And Columbus is known for having hotels. If you're going to an event in Bloomington, you stay in Columbus because there's hardly any hotels in Bloomington. So if you want to go to say a basketball game and it's... or a graduation event, then you end up seeing Columbus because there's hardly any hotels in Bloomington. So Columbus, Indiana has a population, I would guess, of less than 20,000 people or 30,000 people. It's a very small town. That little bit of rolling hills, cornfields. Right?

So, it's a completely unassuming quintessential small town, USA. If you've ever seen the movie Hoosiers that would give you a good feel for what... Columbus, Indiana would be like is that. Is that right?

Newton 14:48

You're right! John Cougar Mellencamp! 

Dennis 14:50  

Yeah, there we go, John Cougar! Exactly. 

Newton 14:54  

That is correct. And Bloomington has got a fantastic music school. A fantastic music school. So yeah, anyway...

Dennis 15:03  

Sorry! I just had an interrupt. 

Newton 15:04  

Oh, no, that's fine. No, no, it's... I'm glad you know the place! Because I still have a very good friend I made there, Lars Halverson, and so, we still keep contact. Anyway, so I came back and I didn't know what I wanted to do. And then I went on to teach English for a year and a half. 

Dennis 15:26  

Oh, where did you teach? 

Newton 15:28  

I taught at the high school as a high school teacher for some time. Yeah. 

Dennis 15:35  

In Brazil? 

Newton 15:36  

In Brazil, in Brazil. Yep. And, and then, one day, I had this epiphany. I said, "Now, it's time to move on. What am I going to do?" So, I wrote down everything that I wanted to be, what I would want of a profession. What would I want in and of a profession for myself? I wanted to be independent, I wanted to work with something where I could use my hands, I wanted to work with something where it could be artistic. I wanted to work with something where I could relate to people. And I wanted to be my own boss. And I liked the biology side of education. And then I started adding up. And the adding up, said, Well, what are the professions that could give me that which I want? 

Can I interrupt you for a second, Newton? So in in the US, we follow a track of going from high school to undergraduate college and then from undergraduate, then we will then go into our professional school or maybe to a gap year or whatever. So did you go then from high school to... Is that traditional in Brazil? So, did you go to undergraduate college out of high school?

Newton 17:07  

No, I didn't. I didn't... I went straight from high school to dental school. So, I was 23 when I got into... Actually when I finished my dental degree.

Dennis 17:15

So you don't need to have an undergraduate degree to go into dental school? 

Newton 17:25
You don't, you don't. 

Dennis 17:27  

Is it typical to go high school right into dental school in Brazil?

Newton 17:32  

That's our educational system. That's the way it is. However, this is very interesting. Our educational system makes it so that in high school -- there are four years of high school -- you have so much stuff. I mean, you have so much stuff in all areas, you know -- biology, mathematics, language, grammar, history, geography, you name it -- that when you are done, it's very much like, you having gone through undergraduate, like a two years of college or three years of college depending, like you've gone pre-med. And I know that because when I was doing my senior year, in Columbus, I knew stuff that those guys didn't have a clue about. I mean, I had had things that they didn't know about in mathematics and in history and geography. So this part... Maybe it's too much? I don't know, but we survive anyway. So...

Dennis 18:36  

It is the system that they have, which is...

Newton 18:38  

It's the system. So we go straight from high school into professional school.

Dennis 18:43  

Now, do you... So, I just want to... I'm curious. And so, when you're in high school, then. So, that's why it's so... It's kind of critical, then! There's many students or many, you know, many young adults in the States that will go to college to figure out what they want to be or what they want to do. But it sounds like that's more happening, in your experience, you've got to sort of get that sort of figured out when you're in high school. Is that accurate or am I off on that? 

Newton 19:13  

That is correct. 

Dennis 19:14  

And that's a lot of pressure. That's a lot of pressure for a high schooler, right?

Newton 19:17  

It is a lot of pressure. And that's a shame because a teenager has no idea what he or she wants.

Dennis 19:24
My brain at 17 was like, please!

Newton 19:28
Yeah, so yeah, that kind of thing...

Dennis 19:31  

Yeah, it's interesting. I mean, it's a system that works, but it's just interesting that it's... In its difference. You know, it's neither right or wrong. It's just a different way. But obviously it works because you have continued to be able to create wonderful professionals in all sorts of different ways. So it's just different, right? There's different expectations and stuff as people are growing up.

Newton 19:51  

Yeah, you know, a few guys will drop out, and they realize that's not what they want to do and then they...

Dennis 19:59  

It happens here in the States, right? How many people end up going into a profession or, you know, they're pre-med in undergrad. And then they're like, "No, this is not what I want to be doing. I want to... I want to dance for a living! I got to get out of this!" 

Newton 20:14  

Well, in my case, I spent a year and a half doing something else. And so... 

Dennis 20:19  

You were teaching, which sort of brings on sort of where you are in your life and stuff like that. It's sort of like coming sort of full circle, right? I mean, you sort of found your way into the arts, you found your way into what you want to do in dentistry. But here you are back to where you started, when you were 20 years old. 

Newton 20:37  

That is true.

Dennis 20:38  

It's just a different venue. 

Newton 20:39  

That is true. 

Dennis 20:40  

And I think that just sort of brings into, you know, the equilibrium of our lives, right? The who we are. And when things all sort of shake out, and you allow life events to sort of happen, we're going to find our equilibrium, and we're going to find out where we're supposed to be.

And so often... I was just talking to Gregg Kinzer, he was on our Sharecast, and his dad's a principal in high school. And now Gregg's running, you know, in some degree, sort of the Spear Institute, and he's got to like deal with teachers, like, you know, like Jeffrey Rouse, and others. I'm like, "You're like a principal now. You're like your dad!" He watched as he grew up his dad as a principal, because you got to sort of have the educational stuff, but you also got to manage all the, you know, the bad teachers and stuff, and the bad students.

But I think it's interesting how, you know, what goes around comes around, you know, sort of the cycle and stuff. I think that's super interesting. So anyhow, I digress. You taught for a year and a half, you sat down, you wrote down your list of things that made sense to you -- that this is things that you would find fulfilling and stuff and you look at that list, and you said...

Newton 21:47  

Dentistry is it! 

Dennis 21:49  

How funny is that?

Newton 21:50  

Dentistry is it! So, you know, needless to say, my dad was very happy when I said that. 

Dennis 21:56  

Was he? I wanted to ask you that. 

Newton 21:57  

Oh, yeah. Okay. He never, never once said, "You should go into dentistry." Never once. So when I told him I wanted to, of course he backed me up 100%.

Dennis 22:09  

Do you have siblings? Do you have any other kids in the family? 

Newton 22:11  

I have two sisters, older sister. 

Dennis 22:13  

Have they gone into dentistry?

Newton 22:15  

No, I have... My oldest sister is eight years older than I am. And she is a psychologist. And the other sister is five years older than I am. She is a nurse and she is in academia. And so nobody has gone into dentistry.

Dennis 22:37  

Can ask a question about your dad when he was head of Radiology? Did you recognize that when you were a kid before you went to dental school that he was sort of having these two different hats. He was in private practice, but he's also at the University. Did you recognize that?

Newton 22:56  

Oh, yeah, I did. I did! And I loved it about him. Because I loved the diversity of his life. That's one of the things that I love about my life is being in private practice and being the teacher, because I couldn't possibly just be a private practitioner. And I don't think so... So, yeah, so I could toggle from there. So I looked at him, and you know, and sometimes I would, as a kid, I would go to the dental school, and just sneak in, and sit in the back and watch him lecture and teach and I admired that a lot about him. So that certainly made an impact on my vision of what being a teacher could mean or being a professor could mean.

Dennis 22:56  

So cool. Walk me through when you went to dental school, then. So you're now... So, was it atypical, then -- someone like you who had been out in the real world doing whatever for a couple years, a few years, and then they came back into dentistry? Or was that relatively typical in Brazil that someone would be, you know, not from high school right into dental school? What percentage of your classmates were like you that had done something different than going from high school into dentistry? 

Newton 24:10  

Oh, zero. 

Dennis 24:12  

Oh, no kidding!

Newton 24:13  

Yeah, it was very unique. It was very unique. Now what we did find in my class was because you have to pass this exam, right? Like in the US, you have SAT, and then you have to do have certain standards, and a GPA, and things like that. Here we have the same. And so... And as it is today, it was really hard to get in. Because you had to have really high grades. And so most of the guys and girls in my class had been trying to get in for the... for two years in a row. So they were a little older than average, but not that they were doing something else like they were working or teaching like I was. They were just studying hard to pass the board, to pass the exam.

Dennis 25:06  

Gotcha. It's a lot of people today do a gap here where they can go and work to improve their grades, improve their test scores, stuff like that. So they get done with undergrad, and then they've got to go back, and they're just trying to kill it, so they can then make that next step. That's super interesting. That's... For those out there who are listening and watching. Keep at it, don't give up. Don't give up. Don't give up. If this is what you want to do without, you know... If you've heard me talk, it's an awesome, awesome, awesome career, awesome profession. It's certainly difficult and challenging in so many different ways. But man, if you want it, just keep going at it, keep keep keep at it. 

Newton 25:09  

Do you mind if I say something to that end? 

Dennis 25:47  

Yes, please. 

Newton 25:54  

So I took the exam, the entrance exam, three times. I had to take it three times to get in. I didn't pass the first; I didn't pass the second. And I had to take them, and they were six months apart. So I didn't pass the first one. I had to study for six months, took the second one, didn't pass. And then I took the third one. And then I passed. 

Dennis 26:17  

Thanks for sharing that. 

Newton 26:18  

Oh, well, man. Yeah. Because you know, people think, Oh, you're... People think, oh, everybody's who's out there and up there have always been so bright. And it's always been so easy for you to to accomplish things. Not so! I mean, there's a lot of... there are a lot of rocks to crack to get to where you want.

Dennis 26:43  

Anyone who thinks a super easy, they just... Just hang out with any of us, and have a drink with us. We'll tell you about the realities. Because it's not, it's just not! There's so many obstacles, and you've just got to be... You know, it's not... What's the old saying? It's not how many times you're knocked down, it's how many times you get up! And that's, you know... In any endeavor, just get back up. Get off the mat! You know what? And take the test again. Study, and really push yourself. And that's really... that's really interesting to hear. I'm glad you shared that. Thank you so much.

I want to share something with you. So, for those who are watching this... Newton, you're going to love this. You're just going to love this. So I've got to tell this story. I first saw Newton many, many years ago, and you don't know the story because I haven't shared this with you. I think it was... What was the year? I'm going to tell you right now! It was 1997. So for those who are watching, you can see what Newton looks like! And I'm guessing you're about 30 years old here. Is that maybe 31, 32-ish?

Newton 27:52  

I was born in 1963. So in '97... That was 34. 

Dennis 27:59  

So I'm showing a photograph of Newton when he... He looks like he just graduated high school. Look at him, and he's just such a cute looking kid. And he presented at -- I don't know if you remember this meeting, but I do like it was yesterday! -- this was at the American Academy of fixed prosthodontics. It was on a Saturday in Chicago at the Marriott Hotel. I'm going to stop sharing.

And I was a young dentist, and I had been invited by Gerald Siebert, who was the president of the American Academy of Fixed Prosth. He was one of my mentors. He was head of prosth at Marquette dental school where I was teaching. And he had taken me under his wing and he had said, "Dennis, you've got to come to the fixed prosth meeting." And I sat in the audience, and there's probably about 400 people in the audience. And this Newton Fahl guy gets up there, this guy from Brazil gets up, and he... Your presentation was on the composite crown.

And Newton, I'll never forget this presentation. It blew me away. And I'll tell you, here's what was so interesting. So if you've seen Newton, and I don't want to say that your work is flawless, all of our work has flaws... You see the flaws more than anybody else does, right? Because you you know your work and stuff, but from from the uninitiated, it was it was flawless. It was just this beautiful, beautiful work.

And in particular, you showed a central incisor, and he blew it up on the screen, and the screen had to be, oh my note, you know, at least 10 feet tall. And so you had a 10 foot central incisor. So you take a central incisor that's 10 millimeters, and you make it 10 feet. And it was this beautiful restoration. And it just looked just awesome. It blended in with the dentition. It was great. And the guy in front of me... I heard the guy in front me say to the guy next to me, he leans over he goes, "Yeah, but I wonder what the margins look like." That's what he said. Right?

Well, the tissue is like just perfectly healthy. The tissue looks great. The restoration looks awesome. And it was interesting because... I remember that. I remember that guy saying that, because I'm like, Alright, this is the real world. The real world is you have believers, and you have nonbelievers. And people who are nonbelievers are going to find a way to satisfy their nonbelieving. They're going to look at this and say, "Yeah, but..." Okay, but... And whether you want to follow that path, or that philosophy of treatment, that's a decision you get to make, right? You want to do it in porcelain, you want to do in composite, you want to do it in gold, whatever it is, right?

But the reality is that there's a level of excellence, not perfection, but there's a level of excellence, and we have to be able to accept that. And it may not fit into how we want to do our practice, or do our restorations. But I wanted to share that with you, Newton, because I've never forgotten it. It was of high influence to me because I stunk at composites. I was awful. I mean, I was literally I was awful it was I just didn't get it. I didn't understand how to use the materials.

And I was blessed that within a year of that meeting, I got to meet Buddy Mopper, who then helped me understand the reality of being able to work with composites and manage composites, and the science behind the composites. And so I want to thank you, Newton.

And one of the other things that you're so influential with me is, I was in avid reader of the PPAD - practical procedures in aesthetic dentistry, I think it was called, back in the day, which I think was one of our foremost journals on showing really beautiful aesthetic dentistry, and you were a constant contributor to that journal. And I learned so many techniques. And I have so many of them. I meant to bring them with me there at the office. Quite honestly, I have them stapled. And so these are from 20 years ago, truly! 25 years ago! And I still have those. And they were so influential on my learning and my understanding of layering composites and being able to see, and being able to understand techniques.

And so that's just me just sharing with you sort of my path and the influence that you had on me back in the day. And I can't even imagine what it was like as a young dentist at that age that you went up in that stage at the Fixed Prosth meeting. So, for those who don't understand, Fixed Prosth means these are people doing ceramics and people who are doing, you know, still metal, total metal restorations, and non composites. I mean composites -- during that generation, composites were not even considered to be a decent, temporary material. Composites were thought of to be complete crap!

And Newton went up there and just blew me away and, I think, a lot of the audience by your artistry and your skills. So, I wanted to share that with you before I forgot. 

Newton 33:07  

Well, thank you. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. It really blows me away to see that you even have that flyer! Please make sure you share that with me; send that flyer because I don't have it! And that was the very first time I ever presented in the US. 

Dennis 33:24  

I was going to ask you that. 

Newton 33:26  

That was the very first time I ever presented. And I don't know, because I had published and I published my article on the polychromatic.

Dennis 33:31
Right, which now... Google that if you haven't seen it, it's such a great article. It's historic. Go ahead. Sorry.

Newton 33:38

Well, it's a historical article, it's 1995. And I think it really caught the attention of the dental community. And little did I know that I was going to be speaking before the Academy of Fixed Prosth, and it was a good thing that I didn't know the caliber or those guys when I walked onstage. And I just did my thing. You know, I said, "Well, I want to share with you whatever it is that I do." Very naively, very naively.

And like you said... There are people... there are the believers and the unbelievers and the nonbelievers, and those who will praise you, and those who will put you down. This is like everything else in the world. To me, it was a fantastic experience. I still, to this day, I have the plaque in my waiting room. Oh, I do. I do. I have the plaque. And it's beautiful. Well, thank you. Thank you for sharing that with me. It brings in fond memories.

Dennis 34:44  

Well, fond memories for me, too. I literally... there's a couple events I remember exactly where I was sitting. One was when I saw Frank Spear speak for the first time. I know exactly where I was at McCormick Place. I remember when you presented where I was, and I remember seeing Buddy Mopper talk to the Aesthetic Dental Group and tell people who were prepping teeth for veneers that they should be put in jail. I was sitting in Philadelphia then, too. Those are 33 hallmarks of where I was when things happen.

So, I want to talk about a few more things before we go. I want to talk about your education. So tell me, how did you end up at Iowa? So you you did your dental school experience, and... Well, I don't want to rush through this. Sorry. Do you have a few minutes? Because I've got so many! I'm so curious about stuff. Number one, what was your dental experience... your undergraduate dental experience like? What do you remember?

Newton 35:42  

Wow, that's a long story. That's an altogether separate podcast. I have so much to tell about my my dental experience, but it was awesome. I loved every bit of it, every bit of it. I was I fell in love with it from day one. Again, I was sure that was what I was in for. The profession would present me with so many happy moments throughout my career. And I saw that. It was like almost I was foreseeing what was to come. And I would go to class, a happy camper, and I would excel. I loved it so much that I would excel. I was accepted in second. I passed the exam, the entrance exam, in second. And I graduated third in my class.

And at the time, I was working. I still taught English at night in the evenings, to supplement my income and to support myself. Because I was married at the time. I had a daughter, and I had, you know, all this. You know, my first wife and I had all this going. So that was part of my dental life. But I loved every minute of it. So I really worked hard to get the most out of it and to be a good student. And I just loved it.

If you remember your first dental procedure outside of like a cleaning? Like that first restorative procedure?

Newton 37:28  

Yeah, I remember it was a huge plus one amalgam. I do. I still do to this day. Mmm hmm. Yeah. Cleaning, cleaning? Yeah. But then the very first operative procedure where I had to use a burr to drill a tooth. That was a class one amalgam on the lower molar. Yeah, first molar. Yeah, I remember that. You must remember... What was yours?

Dennis 37:54  

Number 27, a class re-amalgam, DL amalgam, on Bonnie... What was Bonnie's last name? Bonnie made balloons. She made these hot air balloons. And she was a seamstress that seamed, and so she made the... She was part of the Levi's hot air balloon, that has like two legs. And yeah, so Bonnie was my first patient with the number 27 DL amalgam? 

Newton 38:23

Wow!

Dennis 38:24

Yeah, I know, it's like it happened yesterday. My hands are still shaking, just thinking about it. Alright, so you ended up at Iowa for your post-grad to do an operative dentistry? And I have no clue. How did you know? How did you even know about that? And first of all, there's very few schools in the country, in the US, that have operative programs. Michigan does. Iowa does. North Carolina. I think UCLA does, if I remember right. But there's maybe half dozen. How how did that all happen? Where'd you come up with this?

Newton 38:54  

Gerry Denny, Dr. Gerald Denny was in Brazil in January of 1986 for a meeting in Brazil. So, he was lecturing there. So, I saw him and then I said, "Well, that's what I want to do. I want to do operative dentistry." And before that, I wanted to be a maxillofacial surgeon. I wanted to be a surgeon. And then I got... You know, I fell in love with operative dentistry.

And I saw Gerry Denny, and I approached him and said, I want to come in and do my post-grad, a graduate program. And so, we exchanged information. This was January of '86. And I graduated in July of '87.

So during that time, I started to apply for scholarships ,and I got a scholarship to help me support. Otherwise I wouldn't have had the finances to go through the program. So I applied, and I got my letters of recommendation, and all the paperwork, the application, sent in, and I was finally accepted. So I had no idea what Iowa was like. I knew Dr. Denny; he was such a great professor and a good professional. And I wanted to emulate him. I wanted to be what he was. So I went after him, not after Iowa.

Dennis 40:25  

Okay, I was wondering. So for those who don't know, Gerald Denny, he is one of the one of the original cosmetic dentists in the countries. You know, one of the people who really started doing cosmetic dentistry, and doing research on it. He was at Iowa and he was he was really doing a lot of things that really pushed cosmetic dentistry forward. Unfortunately, most people don't know who he is. But Gerald was really just a phenomenal dentist, a phenomenal educator, and for many, many, many, many years, you taught side by side with with with Gerry. And it was it was really quite neat. 

Newton 41:00  

What honor. What an honor it was for me. I don't know if you knew this, but his master's is not an operative dentistry. It is an education. 

Dennis 41:12  

Oh, no kidding.  

Newton 41:13  

Yeah. See there. There he is. If anyone is, he is a true educator, man. He's a true mentor.

Dennis 41:21  

That's great. Now I think about you two all the time, when I get to teach with Mopper. I do look back because I would attend your courses when you were teaching with Gerry. And I think about that a lot now that I get to teach with Buddy and stuff like that. It's pretty neat being able to teach with your mentor and, and yeah, I look back at those fondly when I would attend your sessions and stuff. Really cool.

Newton 41:44  

Yeah. Well, let me interrupt you for a minute, and say something, because you're saying that you had no clue what composites were and how to deal with that. And then with Mopper... You've come a long ways, man! Because what you do is -- you have my total respect for the quality of the work that you do and the teaching that you. For one who knew nothing about composites to get to the level you are, as an operator, as an educator.... kudos to you, man! 

Dennis 42:14  

Aw, thank you.

Newton 42:14  

And anyone who's listening to us, you know, they know you. But if you haven't attended one of Dennis's classes, you ought to because you're in for a treat. You're in for a true learning experience. And you're going to be razzled dazzled by the quality, by the pristine work that he does with composites. I mean, just, he's got a fantastic layering approach. He's even modified some of Buddy Mopper's layering strategies, and he's got his own way of doing things that are fantastic. So you...

Dennis 42:45  

We're not here to talk about me! So thank you, but...

Newton 42:49  

No, I'm not bragging about you. You know, I'm being very honest and earnest. And you're saying a lot of things to me that you hadn't said before. And I never said this to you before. So I thought this would be a great opportunity to lay it all out. There you have it!

Dennis 43:08  

This is my Sharecast. So I... You know, and I will say this. Look, for people out there, it's a testament to hard work. And I always thought, Look, I was never the smartest person in my class. I was never the most skilled. But there was one thing I had is I was more determined. I was going to outwork people. And that's sort of how I went through my career. It's like, you can be smarter, you can be better, but there's very few people who are can outwork me. And I was just going to get better at composites once I understood what they could do. And your influence, and Buddy's influence, and later, Corki's influence. I said, "I can do this, I just have to get better at it. I've got to work harder at it." And it really was just putting my nose to the grindstone, and just practicing and practicing and practicing, and finding a mentor, and just working harder, and just keep at it. And so, for those out there, don't give up and just keep at it when you find something you love! Did you ever think about staying in the States, or were you always going back to Brazil?

Newton 44:09  

Yeah, I thought about staying in the states several times. As a matter of fact, I got several invitations to remain in the States. Baylor, Iowa, USC, Atlanta. So I had several opportunities, but I just decided I wanted to remain in Brazil, and the rest is history.

Dennis 44:39
Let me tell you about... So, Curitiba, which is where you are now. Did I say that correctly? Curitiba? 

Newton 44:48

Correct. 

Dennis 44:49  

So in 2007, it was placed third of the list of 15 green cities in the world, and as a result, according to one survey 99% of Coritibans love their hometown, and would not rather be anywhere else. Like everybody loves living there. Is that true? 

Newton 45:11  

That's true. 

Dennis 45:12  

What is it about Coritiba that people love so much?

Newton 45:15  

Oh, it's just beautiful. I mean, it's green. It's orderly. It's clean. 

Dennis 45:24
It's low violence. I was reading about it. There's like very, I mean, it's got really... For a large city, there's not a lot of crime. 

Newton 45:31
The metropolitan area is three, roughly 3 million inhabitants. Coritiba itself is 1.5. Yeah, there's crime. There's crime everywhere. But it's very subdued, very controlled. And so, it's a great place to be. And I live in an area very close to, or actually, we're actually where we're sitting inside a park. So I drive through a park to go to work. And I'm about four miles away. So it's, I mean, my driving to work... It makes my day. I'm just happy. You know, bird singing there. There are animals crossing the road. It's like I'm back in Indiana or Iowa, I don't know. In the woods. Beautiful.

Dennis 46:20  

How was your first Iowa winter? I'm just curious. I meant to ask you. 

Newton 46:24  

Brutal! Minus 40! I almost died once because I was walking... I was, yeah, I parked my car in the parking, in the grass parking lot. I had to walk. And I got in late that day, so I had to park away from the entrance door. And there was a blizzard as it was inside the building in the afternoon. So when I walked out, the snow was up to my chest. So I had a small car, a very little car, it was not too tall. So it was almost all covered in snow. And I had to walk over to it.

And it was... I had no idea how cold it was. It must have been minus 30 or something like that. So I tried to make it to the car, and halfway through, the pleura just collapsed, and froze, and I couldn't breathe in. It was like [gasp, gasp], and I was trying to... And I was midway through. I couldn't go back into the building. And I had to make it to the car. And I was step by step trying to make the car, and then all of a sudden I started to go cyanotic, and get blue.

And I said I can't breathe. And this came to my mind... So, I'm going to drop dead here. In the snow! Nobody's going to find me. They're going to find me. Like frozen to death. And that's what I thought! So I got to the car, turned it on. Thank God, and bit by bit, the heat came in, you know, turned on, and I could breathe in very gently. And then that was it. But I almost died there. Brutal. I don't recommend that to anybody. Don't ever go to Iowa. Don't live there.

Dennis 48:02
You're like one of these people on Everest, right, that are climbing Everest, and they die in Everest, and then they find them several seasons later. When the snow melts. 

Newton 48:11
That's it. 

Dennis 48:13  

Well, I'm glad you made it. We're all grateful. All right, I've got a couple more questions for you. Tell me about Grace. If anyone knows Newton, you know that Grace is... You know, your... I don't want to say she's your your right hand... I mean, anyone who's taken a course from from Newton, or has gotten to know Newton, you've known Grace. How do you meet Grace?

Newton 48:34  

Well, you just hit a hot button there. Grace is the love of my life. She is my wife of 20 years. We've been married for 20 years. We have no children. I met Grace when I was lecturing in the north of Brazil. So I went there. And after the lecture, my host took me to this restaurant and she was there with a group of friends. And I fell in love at first sight. And two and a half months later, we were married. 

Dennis 49:04  

No way! 

Newton 49:05  

To make a long story short... I'm not going to get into this. This is for another podcast. All right. That's a very romantic story. But it was by the grace of God that she came into my life because she is a super person. I can't say enough about what kind of a person she is. She's a friend. She is one who always lifts me up. She is very supportive of most everything I do. And the things that she is not supportive of, she is a kind corrector of my demeanor. She tries to keep me going in the right direction.

And she's just a loving girl. Beautiful, like anyone can be. I always tell people that I took away the most beautiful lady in town, and they still haven't found another one to replace her. So I'm just forever in love with Grace.

So and those who know me, as you said, I don't travel without her. And we had a covenant when we got married, and I said, Listen, I travel around. And one of the things I'm going to tell you is I've seen a lot of lecturers get divorced on account of they're traveling so much that their family life breaks up, and breaks down. And I've been divorced once, and I don't want for that to happen again. If you're coming into my life, I want for you and I to be together wherever I go. Are you on this with me? Are you... She goes, we're one in that purpose. So, ever since... I haven't traveled, I think once or twice in 20 years, and I've lectured all around the world, over 40 countries. Very seldom, I think once or twice, she hasn't accompanied me in my travels. And she also assists me! You know that. 

Dennis 51:07  

She does! 

Newton 51:08  

Yeah, she's not just a beautiful face. You know? She's sitting next to me. 

Dennis 51:14  

She's elbow deep. She's helping; she's running the program.

Newton 51:18  

Oh, she... Yeah, so, she's great! Grace is my true love. 

Dennis 51:25  

Well, look, if she ever kicks you to the curb, my love, Angela... She's a dentist here in Milwaukee. She'll take Grace's spot. So, Angela would gladly kick me to the curb if Newton Fahl becomes available, so you have a plan B if it should be necessary. So, if Angela hears this, love you, but I know the truth.

All right, I've got a couple more things to ask you. What is it with all these phenomenal Brazilian dentists? You guys are like... If there was a Olympics and dentist, I think you guys would be like... you guys would be up on the podium like gold, silver, bronze medals. There's so many phenomenal dentists from Brazil. What's that about? How did that happen?

Newton 52:08  

Yeah, you're very... That's very true. That's very true. I don't know. And I don't think I have an answer to that.

Dennis 52:15  

I think you're responsible for that. I think you have partial responsibility. I think you influence a crapload of dentists, Newton, that have changed... I mean, I'm saying this, because -- I'm sorry to cut you off, but when I was... There was dentistry being done around the world, right? There was great, you know, in Europe, Israel, Brazil, around the world, US. But the US was dominating a lot of the education and, you know -- you had Spear, Kois, Dawson. I mean, there was just great minds in dentistry, but also Brazil was like just kicking a** with the people that are coming out of there. And it's one after another! You guys are doing great. And I've got to believe that you have inspired a number of these dentists that are out there. I've got to believe it. I mean, I don't know how to explain it!

Newton 53:02  

Well, I may have. I hope I have. Why not? But I don't have a an honest answer to that. I just know that these guys. They really love what they do. They really love... And again, and again, it's a matter of statistics, because we have a lot of dental schools. Have you googled it?

Dennis 53:24  

No, I have not! How many schools are in Brazil?

Newton 53:27  

I lost count, but it's over 350!

Dennis 53:30  

No kidding. That's like six times the number in the US. Yeah. Wow.

Newton 53:35  

It's a lot. I mean, it's just... What are the odds? I mean, somebody has got to be good out of that many dentists graduating, right? But I think that's not a fair answer to give. But I think, these young guys love what they do, just like I loved what I did. But when I graduated, and I went to Iowa, there was no such opportunity as they have now with social media. And, you know, all it takes is for them to maybe publish an article, and then they get invited. Everything's so easy today.

Well, yeah, in the '90s, early '90s, when I started traveling, I mean, it was really hard. There was no social media. You needed to publish in peer reviewed journals to become exposed to the international dental community. Today, all it takes is one Instagram, and so you're known. But not meaning to say that they are not good. I mean, we have lots of great guys with published books, you know, a lot of talented young people, a lot of research!

Take any peer reviewed -- any solid, respectful, peer-reviewed journal -- you're going to find two or three Brazilians in every single issue. A lot of research, a lot of good research. So, I don't know. You tell me! Maybe you know!

Dennis 55:11  

I don't know. I mean, I honestly... I have to believe that you've influenced a lot of Brazilians because it was not like this, Newton, when I... In the '80s and '90s, it's only been like this last decade where you just see this incredible work coming out, and, you know, kudos! Keep it going! And around the world, everybody... I mean, but there's beautiful dentistry around the world.

I mean, that, for me, is the wonderful thing about social media. You get to see in, you know, in Iraq, you see this dentistry that's being done, and you're like, How the heck are you doing this dentistry in the conditions you are in? Or you're in, you know, Romania, there's beautiful dentistry being under Romania! In so many different countries... And fantastic! Great! You know, they're sharing what they're doing and stuff, but Brazil is killing it. Man.

You guys are... you guys are gold medaling it. You guys are doing great! It's great stuff. So, I want to finish up, I want you to talk about your teaching center! But before you do that... You know, go ahead and do that first, and then I'll finish up with my last set of questions. So, when did you start your teaching center? I know when you did, but talk about your teaching center. How you got inspired for it, and talk about your teaching center.

Newton 56:31  

After returning to Brazil from Iowa, I worked with my dad for six months in Londrina. And then I moved to Curitiba where I am now, because I was invited to teach at the University where I taught in operative dentistry for almost two years... so, years '90 and '91. After that, I was invited to teach as a private institute. And then I taught there for five years, here in Curitiba. In Curitiba. And then in '97, it shut down. So I thought, I need to open my own, which I did. The Fahl center was inaugurated in 1998. So it's been 25 years now.

Dennis 57:15  

Congratulations. 

Newton 57:16  

Thank you! Thank you. It's been 25 years. Yeah.

Dennis 57:21  

How many students have come through the Fahl center?

Newton 57:24  

A little over 3,500. 

Dennis 57:28  

Isn't that amazing! 

Newton 57:29  

From all over the world, from over 40 different countries.

Dennis 57:33  

Is that amazing?

Newton 57:34  

I've been very, very blessed.

Dennis 57:36  

Could you ever imagined... could you have ever imagined that you've have that kind of impact?

Newton 57:40  

Hmm. Not at all. No, I never thought that would happen to me. It just happened. It was just by the, as I say, by the grace of God. Because I worked hard to be happy doing what I did. And God graciously provided me with the ability to be a good educator, to love what I do and love sharing with others. And reward came naturally, the reward came naturally. A lot of hard work. But the reward came naturally.

Dennis 58:13  

Wow. I love learning from you. Continue to, and have learned so much. And so many people I know have been just, you know, been influenced, and just, straight out, just learned technique. And that's a great number, 3500 people going through the Fahl Institute. That's really awesome. Congratulations! That's really cool. If people want to come down and visit you down at the Fahl Center, and I need to do because I've not been down there. So, I need to come down, and just see it all in action and stuff. How do they reach out to you? 

Newton 58:46  

Oh, we have a website. They can look us up. It's fahl.com.br as in Brazil. You might want to post that up. And so, there is the part in Portuguese. And there is the part that you have the English version. So we hold courses in English, every... well, pre-pandemic every year or every two years.

So we do a course. It's sort of a packed back to back anterior / posterior. It's six days with a two day break in between because people are traveling from all over the world. They want to make the most out of it. So, they do three days interior and two days so they can visit around and get to know Curitiba, and then three days posterior. And we are going to hold one in November of this year.

So if they want to find out more about that they can go to the website, and there's a form. They fill out the form and we'll get in touch with them. We'll get back to them and let them know about the details. The program information is there, so they can find out about it.

Dennis 59:41

So just so you know, I Googled Newton Fahl. Do you know there's 29 pages for Newton Fahl in Google? 

Newton 1:00:06
Wow. 

Dennis 1:00:07  

Yeah. Yeah, there's a lot going on, man.

Newton 1:00:11  

Well, whatever that means.

Dennis 1:00:14  

Yeah, I don't know what that means. But there's a lot. So yeah, check out the Fahl Institute. All right. I got a I got a few questions a follow up. So number one, my biggest thing I've been meaning to ask you is pick one: Pele or Rinaldo? 

Newton 1:00:29  

Pele.

Dennis 1:00:30  

You're old school.

Newton 1:00:32  

I'm the real school.  

Dennis 1:00:33  

You're the real school. Did you play soccer growing up?

Newton 1:00:37  

I was a goalie. I gave it up because of my hands.

Dennis 1:00:41  

Smart move. They have this thing in Chicago called 16 inch softball. 16 inch softball, you don't use a mitt to play, and I'm like... So we're out playing and I'm like, I brought a mitt and they're like, you know, they called me... you know, a non-masculine term. And I said I need these things. You know, these things are not... Because everyone who plays 16 inch softball in Chicago, they break fingers! And so, I get that.

Newton 1:01:10  

Yeah, yeah. 

Dennis 1:01:14  

Rio or Curitiba?

Newton 1:01:18  

Curitiba. 

Dennis 1:01:21  

If you're going to do Mardi Gras, New Orleans or Rio?

Newton 1:01:25  

Neither. I don't like Carnival. I like... I'd go to the beach before I'd go to Mardi Gras.

Dennis 1:01:34  

Yeah, I think you got to be the right... You've got to have the right... you've got to have the right disposition to be able to manage that. Okay, I was introduced to... And I want pronounce this correctly. Kinshasa? Or Tequila?

Newton 1:01:51  

Kinshasa.

Dennis 1:01:52  

All right. Kinshasa is like the national drink of Brazil. 

Newton 1:01:55  

Yes, it's sugar cane distilled. 

Dennis 1:01:57  

Yeah, it's a little hard on the intestines for those who are uninitiated!

Newton 1:02:02  

But turn that into capirina with a little lime and ice and sugar. It's a good thing. 

Dennis 1:02:07  

All right, perfect. It's done. Any final thoughts? You've been so generous with your time with us and stuff, but... And this has been wonderful. I'm so grateful that you've hung out with us! This is a long night. And, for those who don't know, this is like three hours time difference. I did not know that. I thought Brazil was a one hour time difference. There's this thing called Google we talked about; I didn't bother with it. I thought there was only an hour time difference. So, I know it's late at night there. And if you look in your background, it was sunlight when we started talking, and now it's pitch black. 

Newton 1:02:39  

Indeed, it was.