Composite Bonding and Cosmedent with Dr. Buddy Mopper

Hello, Dental Online Trainers. Welcome to part two of our Sharecast with my former partner, my mentor, a guy who really doesn't need much introduction, Dr. Buddy Mopper. But I gave you a little bit of introduction in the little promo. But I would advise everybody if you want to hear some great stories about going to dental school and then afterwards go back and listen to Part One because there was stuff... I practiced with Buddy from 97 to 2018, I think, so we had 20 years together. I thought I knew everything about you. And I heard some great stories that I didn't know about, so we had a lot of laughs, and it was good fun. So this Part Two is about Cosmedent. And Buddy was a real pioneer. For those who don't know, composite systems were much different back in the day, and Buddy, I want you to sort of start us out what it was like and we ended part one talking about when Kluzer came in and you started working with Durafill. And I want to take it from there because I think this is where you started really thinking about how to make composites better. So you're using Durafill, which was the first microfil in dentistry, and you're seeing phenomenal polishes. And now with your practice now you're still doing pediatric dentists, pediatric dentistry?

Buddy 1:20  

I was not... At that time, I was starting to phase out a little bit. Remember, before, I had a series of people come in including my nephew who worked for me and helped in the practice and things of that nature. So I was starting to phase out and do more of the Adult Dentistry, but I was still doing a pediatric dentistry, and seeing my... What I did is basically as I started to phase out, I would see consults and recalls in my practice, and then in the in the morning, and then do a lot of the heavy bonding in the morning also, along with that. But in the afternoon I did more of the heavy bonding until when I had to change over completely, and I started going completely into bonding and not doing the Pediatric Dentistry at all.

Dennis 2:25  

Great, so you transitioned; you brought in pediatric dentists, and now you're just kind of treating and doing the cosmetic dentistry stuff, right?

Buddy 2:32  

Right. For everybody!

Dennis 2:33  

Yep. So now you become... if I remember right, Buddy, you started to start working with companies. So first talk about like some of the frustrations you were having with the materials back then. So you're using Durafill, and what other materials were you? Herculite maybe was coming out then?

Buddy 2:52  

Herculite didn't come out till later. That came out a little later. I was using a macrofill from Johnson & Johnson, I forget what it was named, as a backup material because it was stronger, okay, like for the lingual wall and stuff like that.

Dennis 3:07  

So you were doing the layering where you would use a stronger material, macro fill, for the palatal wall, and then you put...

Buddy 3:13  

I'd use an opaquer on it if I needed to, and that's what I used. But then I would do the microfill over the top as far as for the aesthetics.

Dennis 3:23  

How the hell did you figure that out?

Buddy 3:26  

Well, I knew I needed to strengthen the lingual, you know, for a fracture...

Dennis 3:30  

As a microfill?

Buddy 3:30  

I wanted the strongest thing I could get, and there wasn't herculite at that time, okay. And so I that's how... I just did it. And it worked for me. I forget the name of the material. And...

Dennis 3:35  

Was anyone else layering? Like were you like going? At this point, Buddy... I mean, this was before there was a Cosmetic Association.

Buddy 3:52  

I think the only myself and Norm Fiegenbaum were the only two layering.

Dennis 3:58  

So how do you... Alright, I'm just trying to picture this, right? So this is before... I mean, you got the American Dental Association. Is anyone talking about this stuff? I mean, where?

Buddy 4:11  

I started... they had me lecturing. I was lecturing. I had people laugh me off the stage; I had people that didn't believe it! But I started... I was lecturing for a long time. Don't forget, we wrote the book, The Complete Guide to Dental Bonding, which was very successful for Johnson & Johnson. And that was... that was a backup material I was [using.] I think was called Orafill. That's what it was called. Orafill was the back up, the real strong macrofill material, okay, that I use for the backup material. And then I used opaquers, the ones they had come Kulzer, and I used their microfill, and it worked! It worked! But there were so many things that... It was too translucent. It... And I went to companies We went to 3M; we went to Johnson & Johnson. And we said, "We've got some really great ideas!" They don't want to... But we wanted to participate. They didn't want to be part of it. So eventually, that's when Norm Feigenbaum and I started Cosmedent. Then we brought Mike O'Malley to help run it, and we came up with ideas; that's how it started.

So you and Norm Feigenbaum, who's since passed, passed away, but you guys are saying, "Okay, we've got to create our own company!" Now you just, you just don't go out and create a company. I mean, this... It's not like, "Hey! Now I've got a composite!" I mean, how did you...

Buddy 5:41  

We started as an educational company.

Dennis 5:43  

You were teaching people actually how to layer with the materials out there.

Buddy 5:47  

After that, we wrote the the best... actually the first cosmetic [piece], The Form of Aesthetic Dentistry, okay, was really the first cosmetic piece dedicated to cosmetic dentistry. And Norman was a good writer; he was the one that was in charge of that. I added copy to it, and things that nature, but we started The Form of Aesthetic Dentistry. So we had The Form of Aesthetic Dentistry. And then I felt, you know, that dentists needed something to show people what can be done with composite, okay? So we developed an album; we took a lot of my stuff a little bit of Norman's stuff. And we put together... we went to our local Photo Phototronics, and they developed these... developed the pictures for us, and we put it into an album, and we sold like $53,000 worth of the album the first year. 

Dennis 6:51  

Seriously? No way! 

Buddy 6:52  

Yeah, yeah. And the dentists...

Dennis 6:54  

Before and after?

Buddy 6:56  

Before and after. Okay? 

Dennis 6:57  

So dentists could show their patients, "Hey! This is what it would look like if I could close that space!"

Buddy 7:01  

At that time, dentists weren't into photography, right? They weren't into photography.

Dennis 7:07  

So you've always been beautiful with your dental photography. Now back, for those who are the younger dentists, we were shooting slide photography back in the day. Did you, were you shooting photos like as a hobbyist or anything before you started shooting photos in the practice.

Buddy 7:22  

No.

Dennis 7:22  

Alright, so you come in and you went down to your camera shop. Phototronics was the camera shop down the street from the old office, and did they just sort of guide you on building a kit to take photos?

Buddy 7:33  

No, no. I did it myself. I wanted the best lens I could shoot with, and so I got the medical Nikkor, which is still the best lens you can shoot with.

Dennis 7:45  

Great lens, yeah! 

Buddy 7:47  

It's outstanding, but they don't do it anymore because it's a very expensive... it's very expensive. And I shot it on a Nikon body. And I... the ring light was built into the lens. It's a phenomenal! It's a shame that they don't have today! The only thing is it's heavy, right? It's very heavy. But you can sit outside the mouth, you don't have to get right up on the patient, so it's much easier to shoot because of its telephoto aspect to it, and you could shoot outside the mouth, so you'd only imposed on the operator, okay, so you could shoot working pictures! It's unbelievable lens, and so that's my shot with! And today, the clarity of the pictures are still so unbelievable, it's unreal!

Dennis 8:29  

And you were just self taught. You just sort of just practiced... 

Buddy 8:32  

I taught myself!

Dennis 8:33  

Trial and error. That's great. That's that's a good lesson for our dentists that are out there, especially young dentists, is sometimes it's just trial and error, you know! You just keep on practicing, keep on working it, until you figure out how to get it right! Alright, so... Because I interrupted you. We were talking about that, but I was curious about your photography background. Alright, so, you guys get this photo book. You and Norm put this photo book together. You go to trade shows like Chicago Midwinter Meeting. You guys got a little booth, and you say, "Hey, this is our Before and After book!" That was the first product that you guys had. 

Buddy 9:04  

That was our first product. 

Dennis 9:06  

And were you guys named Cosmedent then?

Buddy 9:07  

We were Cosmedent then. We were an educational company, but we brought out a product. That was a product. Then we found the discing system. Okay? And I I changed it, and it's still... it's such a wonderful discing system to this day. It's unbelievable. 

Dennis 9:26  

It's the best! It's the best discing system! 

Buddy 9:27  

It's unbelievable! And... because even with the course disk, you don't leave any scratches. You can go all the way through the polishes. It's rapid. It's fast. The paper is resilient and doesn't crimp. It's got everything you want in it, and we change the color coding system in it to make it easy to differentiate. And so that was our second product were the discs.

How did you know to use discs? Like what was it... like you're, so you're polishing...?

Buddy 9:55  

Because I started, remember, I told you, back in dental school! We used discs in dental school, okay? 

Dennis 10:00  

Oh, you did? You were using discs...

Buddy 10:01  

Yes! We used discs to polish...

Dennis 10:05  

Like gold margins, like you'd run your discs out of gold margins?

Buddy 10:09  

Gold margins, on amalgam, on... I was... if you did, you could do a cervical amalgam, and you used discs and things of that nature. And so I used discs all the way through. So I started with a sampler of discs all the way through cuddle. And so, I did... they were natural. So once we found the mylar mesh discs, which are much more usable, it was a natural! And so, we developed our discing system. Then along came the rubber aspect to it, you know? And so that was it. And then our next product that we developed was renamel microfill and renamel restorative system, the first... the opaquers, and the microfill. That came after the...

Dennis 10:11  

Buddy 11:02  

I wanted to make it more opaque, okay? So it matched the opacity of the tooth surface itself. And I wanted to be able to have its own internal translucency, so we could develop translucency from within. Or as you thinned it out, it would become more translucent. And that's what we did. We were lucky enough to have a company come to us from Germany. And they showed me their product. And I... I liked the polishability of the product, but we changed the whole system. And my idea, and we were the first ones to do it, was to match the Vita guide, because everybody was coming out with composite UO, LO, this kind of thing. That's a bunch of bunk. Let's match tooth color. And what's the best color? What's the best shade guide on the market? The Vita guide? So that's what we match!

Dennis 11:58  

How long did it take you? When you guys first started and you sat down with your scientists, your chemists, and you guys were like: Alright, this is what they have. This is what you want it to be... how long did it take?

Buddy 12:07  

Right! See, the consistency wasn't what we wanted either. So we said you've got to change the consistency. You've got to change the color, you've got to change the opacity. And these guys are tremendous. They're still alive today and still with us. Okay? And just it's been a great teamwork between the people in Germany and us in developing our products! It's amazing! 

Dennis 12:33  

So how long did it take you to get the microfill? From when you guys first met them and started seeing their material to get a microfill you could put it on the market?

Buddy 12:39  

It took us about... to develop the microfill, it took us about a year and a half, I think... Because we had trouble the opaquers, and I didn't like the opaquers. So I had to them back and make opaquers over.

Dennis 12:53  

Can I ask what you didn't like about the opaquers?

Buddy 12:55  

Too thin. They were too runny... 

Dennis 12:57  

Too runny!

Buddy 12:57  

Yes. No control over them! And the first batch of microfill I didn't like the consistency, either. It was too soft. So we change that, too.

Dennis 13:10  

If I can put a plug in for the opaquers... What I love about the Cosmedent opaquers is is that they're opaque but not overly opaque. 

Buddy 13:16  

That's right!

Dennis 13:17  

So you can block out, and if you need to block out some more after you light cure it, you can add a little bit more opaquer, where some of the opaquers are so dang strong that they're... that all sudden, your restoration becomes too opaque.

Buddy 13:31  

Dennis 13:40  

Which, so for those who don't understand that, if you're doing an A1 tooth, you can, with the renamel system, you can take an A1 hybrid or a high A1 nanofiller as a palatal wall using A1 opaquer, and then you finish up with your A1 microfill, and that's how you get your final shade. That technique of picking the shade and using it all the way through, Buddy, that was so different from what anyone else was doing right time.

Buddy 14:07  

Right. That's right.

Dennis 14:08  

Buddy 14:13  

You know what Dennis? I never worried about pushback. I didn't care because I knew I was right. It's the truth! Hey, listen, how easy it is to say I want to match an A4 tooth. Well, what color of microhybrid are you going to do? A4. What color opaquer? A4. What color microfill? A4! Is that easy? What can be easier than that? Because it works! Because... 

Dennis 14:42  

It works. 

Buddy 14:42  

That's why! I never worried about the pushback, and anybody that wants to do it any other way, and they get good results, I have no... nothing, no axe to grind against that! There's a lot of people that do it... A lot of people use our system and still do it a little bit differently; they use a darker microhybrid underneath, and then overlay with a lighter composite, and try to come over third color! I'm not into that Bollywood. I want to match; I want it to match exactly. And that's what we do. And it comes out... it works every time. So I don't... you know, that's why I never even thought about it.

With Cosmedent, you guys then came out with your microfill and your opaquer system. And you've just been sort of growing from that. One of the things though, Buddy, if I... And correct me if I'm wrong here, but it seems like always, from the very beginning, you guys started as an educational company, and you guys have always stressed education as part of the Cosmedent format. Is that is that intentional? I mean is that like...?

Buddy 15:41  

That's intentional. We sell through education, if you want to know the truth. We want our... We want our people to understand how our system works, how it's different from others. We're not just a Me, Too operation, okay? And, you know, we can help them with their other things that are happening with other systems, to tell you the truth. We believe in education. And that's always been the key to our company is: hey, show me how the disc works! Because there's a... there's a way that this work properly! You know that, Dennis! People don't... they pussyfoot around, and where they should be using them, you've got... In order to do that, you've got to demonstrate, so we're the biggest hands on company, I think, in the country, although we're small, but we do so many hands on workshops. It's unbelievable.

Dennis 16:29  

Yeah, I agree.

Buddy 16:30  

You know? So...

Dennis 16:33  

When you guys then... As you guys are sort of growing Cosmedent and stuff. How did you balance between the running the company and...? I know you had Mike O'Malley who's doing that, but, you know, you still had a lot to do. You're coming up with new materials. And you're, you know... But you're also, you've also got a practice; you're in private practice, you have a family... How did you balance that?

Buddy 16:55  

Well, I think in a way, you know, I put in a lot of hours, you know because I put in a lot of night hours at home, developing my presentations and things of that nature. But I still had time for my kids and things of that nature. And my kids were part of it. My son Robert, you know, is in the company. He's been in the company forever. He helped us... He was... he helped us put the albums together when he was a youngster, you know! And so, we've always had good help, you know, our people have been with us long... We've got like people that have been with us 25 years for our company. And so we've had good help. And so, I concentrated on the educational aspect. Mike concentrates on running the business, okay? And I... I will help write copy, but we have his wife Kay, and Barry B and Carol, and people that are dedicated to it. As you know, Erica, as we developed our educational center, we brought on Erica, and she does that! Bennett, who is terrific, who does our... who is our export manager, and things of that nature. You have to bring on people that are good, that do what they do. And so that's what we did, but we worked hard. We traveled a lot. I spent a lot of hours a week doing this. But you know what, it didn't bother me. I just... I feasted on it to tell you the truth.

Dennis 18:20  

Yep. I think it's great. And I think the profession, obviously, we're much better for it because we're doing materials in a much different way. And nobody... Being a pioneer, Man, I tell you, I was talking to Jeff Rouse recently and you know, Jeff does all this stuff with airway and stuff. And he... I said, "Jeff, so I know Buddy has had some some, you know, heated conversations with people about bonding, like versus porcelain and stuff." And Jeff was relaying a presentation where he and someone in the audience, they were like, like yelling at each other over, you know... Debating and stuff!

Buddy 18:54  

I went to McHenry County twice, and they booed me the whole time. You know that has happened, Dennis. Yep. You want to know something? It didn't bother me.

Dennis 19:04  

Really?

Buddy 19:04  

Because I turned... It turned out to be, Yes, because they're... Not the whole group, but there were people there who were non-believers. They don't believe it! When I went back the second time, I said, "You almost gave me a heart attack the first time!" This is years ago, Dennis! I said, "I'm telling you what I know! If you don't like it, I'm sorry, but it works!" And it does.

One of my favorite presentations that I saw you ever give was for the Academy of Aesthetic Dentistry. And I don't know if you remember: this was in Philadelphia, and you were doing it on diastema closing with bonding. And you started your presentation. You're up on the dais, and you're on your podium, and you lean over and you go, "All you dentists out there..." and you're pointing at the crowd. "All you dentists out there that are prepping teeth...cutting down teeth" (that's what you said) "...cutting down teeth for porcelain veneers, to close diastemas, you ought to be put in jail!"

Buddy 20:00  

I was confident that... When I remember when I had Guillain-Barré?

Dennis 20:07  

Yes, that's when I... That's when I joined you.

Buddy 20:10  

Well, you know, and I was in bad shape. The first meeting I did was the Dallas Meeting. And I when I went back there, I get a little emphatic. I said, "You know what? People who..." I had just looked at a case; it was Dentistry Today. And there's a small diastema and then they show these unbelievable preps. And full crowns...

Dennis 20:32  

I remember this! 

Buddy 20:33  

Dennis 20:38  

Malpractice. And I don't disagree with you. 

Buddy 20:40  

That's malpractice. I said, "You don't have to do that. You don't have to bother pieces of porcelain, you do with composite. It's a natural!" Okay. And in my nephew, Jeffrey, who's an orthodontist. He calls me later that day. He says, "Uncle Buddy, what did you say? You're all over the internet!" I told him, I said, "What the hell? That's the way it is!" You know, and I still feel that way. I mean, I see... I see overkill on cases all the time. That's not that the dentistry is not beautiful. But it's just wrong.

Dennis 21:17  

Well, let's talk to the heart of it because the reality is, and this is your line... You talk about dentists being cutters and pasters! That dentists who drill the teeth, take an impression, send the impression, or they'll digitize the impression...

Buddy 21:29  

Dennis 21:31  

A cutter and paster, right?

Buddy 21:32  

You know what? Because there's nothing more creative what we do.

Dennis 21:37  

But there's nothing harder than what we do, too, Buddy! Learning these skills...

Buddy 21:40  

It's hard! It's hard, right? But once you learn it, it's not hard. When you learn how to do it the right way, it comes to you naturally. The thing I've got to tell young dentists is your eye is so important. It really is. You have to visualize what you want to do. You have to be able to train your eye. And that's the whole thing. Once you've to make a tooth look like a tooth, you're a winner. And that's the exciting thing because really, it really... a tooth is really unique in the fact that it has everything every aspect of aesthetics. It has color, opacity, translucency, contour, shape, form, characteristic. Think about that. It's an amazing thing! It is sculpture! With color! 

Dennis 22:30  

With color and translucency.

Buddy 22:32  

Yeah, that's right! That's exactly what it is. 

So, Buddy, you hear this all the time. I hear it all the time. I know you heard it all the time. "I'm no good at that. My hands aren't good at that. I can't do that." In fact, that was my line! I don't know if remember this, Buddy. We sat down for dinner before I joined your practice. And I was a cutter and paster. I was taking porcelain lab technique courses. I was in the place where I was taught that bonding was -- not only was it not a good material, it was kind of a crappy temporary material.

Buddy 22:42
Inferior! Yeah! 

Dennis 22:43

It was an inferior material. And that's what I had heard, and that was the propaganda I was getting. And then I met with you, and I told you, "You know, Buddy, I'm no good at it! I've tried; it doesn't work in my hands." And you invited me to come into the practice, and I saw what real bonding looked like, and I'm like, "Holy shit! This is so cool!" But what do you? In my hands, I didn't understand how to work with the material. I didn't have the knowledge base. What do you tell dentists who say, "I can't do this! I can't do what you do!" What do you tell people?

Buddy 23:13  

They're wrong! It's not artistic, there's nothing... I mean, nothing is... I self taught on all that stuff. I didn't have anybody to mentor me. I taught myself, but I... They're wrong about that. It's a learned technique. And if you develop your eye, in combination with your skills with your hand, and you can do anything, I'm telling you! I'm no special person! It just happened to me. And, you know, and I can... I can train anybody to do it. I think I can.

Dennis 24:04  

I think that's the thing. Right? And I agree! And I think that's what I try to get people to believe.

Buddy 24:09  

Look at my son! My son's not a dentist! You see the stuff he does! It's amazing. Anybody can do it.

Dennis 24:16  

You know, Buddy, I think a lot of people think that they just, you know... "I'm going to go hear Mopper once, and I'm going to know how to do it." Or "I'm going to go take one class from Mopper, and I'm going to know how to do it." I don't think people understand that sometimes you have to go back, and you have to repeat, and you have to get more advice, more mentorship, right? Isn't that what they're missing sometimes?

Buddy 24:35  

It is! For instance, [a dentist] just took my hands on courses three times, and he's... You look at what he does! He does beautiful work. There's so many good people out there now. You know? It's amazing how skilled these young kids are getting. It blows my mind. And I think it just takes... It takes tenacity, it takes effort. It takes... I'm a bit of a perfectionist; I always have been, all my life. 

Dennis 25:05  

Yep, me, too! We share that. 

Buddy 25:07  

More than a bit. And there are some good things about being a perfectionist; there are things that are not so great about being a perfectionist. 

Dennis 25:14  

Yes. Correct. 

Buddy 25:15  

Because it can drive you nuts ,but it really is... One aspect of being, I think, a really creative and really good bonder, okay? Because if there's something out of whack, you've got to take care of it. That's the whole thing. And it really... You have to know what preps to do, if you're going to prep, if you're not going to prep, where to prep if the prep necessary, where are you going to take that prep. You've got to think about what how it works with resistance retention form, and all the things that you're doing. That's where the thought process comes in, in relationship to this skill process.

Dennis 25:54  

Well, for those who don't may not know this, so even though Buddy's retired from treating patients, he's still teaching. In fact, we're teaching a course in Chicago in September, so this may be released before we do our course. But Dr. Mopper is still teaching, and he teaches with this enthusiasm because he wants dentists to get better. I mean, you're so engaged! You want... I mean, you teach because you want people to get better; you're not teaching to show off your work! You're teaching because you want people to get better!

Buddy 26:24  

I'm not interested in how good I am. I'm interested in how good you can be. There's a lot of guys that are better than me now! It doesn't bother me a bit! The best thing you can do as a good teacher is that the people you teach become better than you! Then you're a great teacher. That's what I'm interested in. And the thing about it is that's what's been missing, to tell you the truth, is that when I teach, I'm going to tell you everything it takes in order to get to there! And that... We don't... That's why I do the steps. There is probably no one that documents like I do, I don't think. Is there, Dennis?

Dennis 26:57  

You've taken a few million slides in your career...

Step by step is the key to the whole thing! You've got to know the steps! 

Dennis 27:05

Yeah, I agree.

Buddy 27:07

Once you know the steps, you're home free!

Dennis 27:09  

I agree, and then it's just repetition! And then it's just... 

Buddy 27:12  

It's repetition! That's what it is!

Dennis 27:14  

Yeah, yes.

Buddy 27:14  

Dennis 27:23  

There's some incredibly skilled dentists! And like you said, for me it's like two things. Number one, you get to control it all, which is, I think, super gratifying! And patients see it! You know, this has been a huge driver in my practice! And I did not foresee this, Buddy, until when I joined the practice.

Buddy 27:39  

It's a practice builder! 

Dennis 27:41  

It is a practice builder there are people who come into my practice, our practice, that want resin veneers because our friends have porcelain veneers, and they know the resin veneers look more natural.

Buddy 27:53  

I know that! And they talk about you! They send you... there's nothing like patient referral!
 

Dennis 27:57  

Nothing like it! 

Buddy 27:57  

Patient referral is the best referral you can have, and they talk about you! It's amazing! That's how I... I built my practice through patient referral, and it's amazing!

Dennis 28:06  

Yep, and the practice continues on because of what you set in stone, you know, 40 years ago! And it's, I think... I think porcelain is important; it's critical! But having both, having both available, so you can tell people, "Look! I can do this in porcelain, but I'm going to have to drill your tooth down a ton to be able to close these spaces, or I can just add some bonding. You know, what do you, what do you want to do?" And so, I think, you know, most patients are like, "Well, don't drill down my tooth!" And, I think that's a huge, huge advantage, a huge benefit, for what we're able to do. And I implore dentists: just practice! Just try it! Just keep on going! Take some more courses, just build up your confidence! And using, I think, Cosmedent's system makes it much more predictable than some of the others, and you get the advantage of having the best microfill on the marketplace if you ask me because it's just incredible. So, you know, I don't mean to make this a big pitch for Cosmedent. What the hell! I've got the guy who started the whole thing right here in front of me, so I may as well! Buddy, what have I not talked about your path with building Cosmedent and sort of where you guys are today that you want to share with people?

Buddy 29:16  

Well, we've talked about our philosophy, you know, that education is the important thing, I just... What I want to share with people is: if you need to help, then come see us, okay? We'll help you! Or find somebody that will help you to do this. I encourage every... Listen, like I said, today's restorative dentistry... dental material of choice today is composite. That's the way it is! Okay? and that includes in the posterior. And we're coming out with a new product that is going to be so great, it's unbelievable. And we'll talk about maybe that in the next session, but... Posterior, it's incredible, anterior it's incredible, from cervical standpoint, it's amazing. There's so many places to use it that you need to know how to do it! You can't just be a person who's going to rely on the lab to produce everything because that's not dentistry today. There's so much hands on, direct aspects to dentistry that you need to know both! And that's what I... that's how I feel about. I don't know how to answer your question or not.

Dennis 30:30  

Yeah. Do you ever foresee a situation in our lifetime with the way 3D printing is going, and the resin materials and stuff... Could you ever imagine that you'd be able to just sort of scan somebody and 3D print some composites, and glue them in there, and have as good of a result as what we get by doing it directly?

Buddy 30:48  

Yes. Yes!

Dennis 30:50  

Yeah, I'm wondering about that. Because I mean, we're doing we're doing a bunch of 3D printing in the office...

Buddy 30:54  

We're working in that area! Okay. And I imagine that, but even though it's 3D printing, it's still... it's an indirect technique. Okay. Once you 3D print it, there's still... you've still got to paste it on there, okay? It's not like... because you don't get direct apposition of the material to the tooth surface. The interesting thing about direct resin is you get both a chemical and mechanical retention because you've got direct apposition of that material to the tooth surface. You're never going to be able to marginate it the same way! I mean that. It'll come along. But it's not going to... How are you going to build the aesthetics and do the whole thing? It's going to be very difficult to do, okay? It just is. 

Dennis 30:54  

Yeah, I agree. 

Buddy 30:56  

And so, I don't see anything replacing direct resin bonding for those who want to do it. I mean, it's here. And it depends on where you want to take it. You want to do it is asthetically? Fine. You do not want to do it aesthetically, you only want to do it posterior? Fine. You want to do it for cervical restoration, or fractured interiors, okay! You want to do smile change? It's up to you. Because it all works with direct resin bonding! In fact, even occlusal rehabilitation works with direct resin bonding, and we've done some, and they lasted! They're beautiful. Okay?

Dennis 32:11  

We've done a lot of that. Absolutely. You know, you bring up a good point, and we're going to finish soon. But this is something... Something that you just said... I, I'm just sort of, it's going through my head right now. So, like I'm thinking about a Class V restoration. If you cement something in... Let's say it's composite, let's say it's a beautiful composite, and you cement it in... there's going to be that interface of the cement always between the resin and the tooth. Whereas if you do it directly, you're going resin onto tooth, and you will be able to hone down that margin! Imperceptible! 

Buddy 32:44  

Not only that... when the tooth flexes, and you've got just this small bit of cement that... between them... That has a tendency to pop out of there real fast. I think that direct resin bonding... I would never do a cervical restoration with a paste in! No way! Never!

Dennis 33:02  

Yeah, I don't. Yeah, that's interesting. I hadn't thought about it from that perspective. Buddy, I, this is awesome. I was excited to talk to you. Because I love sharing these these stories, because I think they're incredible. And again, seeing you in action, I had that benefit, but also just knowing the the path that you that you took. And what a lot of young dentists just can't have an appreciation for was what dentistry was like, in the 70s, in the 80s, and into the 90s... And how much, I'd say [that] there was a lot of, like, anger against direct composites and stuff in the 90s! I mean people were really vocal.

Buddy 33:51  

Terrible! I'm telling you! Even organized dentistry, the ADA, thought it was inferior. I didn't care. They were wrong. And I knew it, Dennis. And so, that's... You can be wrong! That's their mistake! Now... And then they talk about evidence-based dentistry! Where were they getting the evidence? The people didn't know how to use it! 

Dennis 34:13  

Yeah, that was the problem.

Buddy 34:15  

And if you read still today, they still have that stuff on there! They're totally wrong! It's not fair to dentistry! And our dental schools do not appreciate composite resin the way they should. I'm telling you right now!

Dennis 34:26  

No one knows how to teach it!

The University of Illinois does. I'll tell you that! 

Let me say this again, there are some schools that have great, great. But there are many that...

Buddy 34:34  

University of Iowa is good. University of Illinois is good. There are some schools are! But a lot of them... They don't respect it. They don't teach it. It's unfair to the students. See, this is where I come in with education. My goal in life is to make sure that every down school teaches those kids a skill level, and they come out with some skill levels where they understand how valuable composite resin is. My God! That's what they're repairing everything with in dental school, yet they don't teach them how to do it!

Dennis 35:04  

Yeah, wow. And that was a motivator for our Dental Online Training, quite honestly, is because I've been teaching in the dental school for so long. I really had an appreciation for that. And I wanted to find a way to be able to reach to especially young dentists, but you know, seasoned dentists also, the very basics. How do you layer? Why, how do you polish? How do you polish? How do you hone down that margin? Those are the things that I was thinking about that everyone needs to know. And I agree with you. We have to do a better job of serving our young dentists as they're going through the programs -- how to be better at this stuff, because it's so critical. 

Buddy 35:38  

Yeah. 

Dennis 35:39  

Yeah. Buddy, this has been awesome. I really appreciate you spending the time with us. You've been very generous with me over the years with your time and your knowledge and experience, and for you to sit down and hang out with us. We also, we'll be doing our webinar where you'll be able to give a little bit of your presentation, and really sort of get into the layering techniques and what makes Cosmedent so special and stuff. So I can't thank you enough. I truly...

Buddy 36:07  

My pleasure, Dennis. 

Dennis 36:08  

This is pretty awesome. 

Buddy 36:09  

To everybody out there, keep bonding!

Dennis 36:12  

Keep bonding! Yeah! That should be my tagline -- keep bonding! But it's, instead it is... I'm Dennis Hartlieb, yours for better dentistry. Thank you for joining us for our Sharecast, Buddy. I can't thank you enough, and we look forward to seeing you again.

Buddy 36:27  

Thanks, Dennis. Nice being with you. 

Dennis 36:29  

Thanks, Buddy.

Buddy 36:29  

Bye!